"audio sync in pal dvx100 at DVinfo.net

Tung Bui · May 28th, 2003, 08:36 PM

There is an audio sync problem on ntsc models especially in progressive mode. Does the PAL models suffer from the same problem?

Secondly how does the 25p mode look in PAL? is it very noticeably different from interlaced mode. People say its suppose to look more filmic, what does that mean?I get the impression that the lack of gain up and high lux needs seems to put alot of people of using it. It is one of the big selling points of the canon cameras.

Peter Jefferson · May 30th, 2003, 11:06 AM

dude, where did you hear about teh sync?
More than likely the person who claims that has shot in 24p, then run an editor in either 25fps or 29fps without pulldown which could couse syncing to sway..
Either way you can get rid of it by adjusting the audio sample rate or by editing in native 24p.

If you have ever shot a canon in frame mode this looks similar but much better as the cameras gamma settings are incredible.
However its running 2 fields of true progressive (not standard frame), basically oversampling the original shot..
so you get 2frames of the same image x 25 times these 2 images arent interlaced but it can look that way sometimes...

hard to explain, but either way, im about to fork out some hard earned cash for one... jsut the spark setting alone in 25p is enough for me.. (that and Panas Audio Recording heads are probably the best on the market)

Zac Stein · May 30th, 2003, 09:26 PM

Spark setting?

WHat are you refferring to there?

Zac

Peter Jefferson · May 30th, 2003, 09:37 PM

there are six different congigs you can have.. theres one called spark... hard to describe, but offers a wonderful picture... :)

Tung Bui · May 31st, 2003, 10:52 AM

Hi Peter,
Yeah I got that from Adamwilt.com, this whiz who owns an ntsc one and he says its out of sync by two frames in 24p mode. Since we are getting 25p I was wondering if it was due that their funny 24fps.
I dont see what the fuss about 24fps is since it was just the slowest acceptable speed they adopted for film years ago. I can understand wanting more dynamic range and resolution which film gives you.
On the subject of progressive scan apparently only computer monitors can display that. On our tv the camera outputs a 50i signal so it can display it am I right? so how can you judge progressive if we cant display it properly? the same for dvd players, you need one that can play progressive to get the benefits dont you?

Peter Jefferson · June 3rd, 2003, 07:05 AM

most plasma and widescreen teles can now run progressive, also many dvd players only run progressive with interlacing done on the tv...

the cam might say 24p mode, but in fact its running 25, with 1 frame difference. its still running 25p but the extra fframe is a double.. hence the 2:3:3:2 frame ratios etc..
im not very good with this stuff, as the pal runs 25p mode progressive so its easy for us and we get the same visual effect..

progressive is jsut the way the image is displyed, whether it be a series of "frames" (frame mode) or a interlation of frames with blended fields.
the difference is artifacts, and the ability to offer teat film type look.
On top of that if you intend on capturing stills from your editor frame mode provides beter results.

your right, most people wouldnt benefit from 24p here in oz.. for one we cant have it due to power and voltages etc but frame mode is immaculate and cannot be faulted...
on top of that, the pal mode offers a higher screen resolution and clearer colours than NTSC... a freind once mentioned NTSC stands for Not The Same Colour.. and you CAN tell teh difference.

price is ridiculous thou.. u can get one from the US for about $5200 or you can buy one from Aus for $8000...
the difference is amazing...

Tung Bui · June 3rd, 2003, 10:02 PM

Has anyone used a pal dvx here in oz yet? My original post was to see if there was a synch problem on the pal models in 25p mode. We dont have 24p on pal. There was a recent review on videocamera magazine but they didnt mention this.

I agree, its ridiculous what we pay here. I thought it was a free market. I'm going to Singpapore later in the year. Problem is customs will lug you with a 13% tax on the way back unless they dont see the cam or you convince them you owned it before leaving overseas.

May 28th, 2003, 08:36 PM	#1
Tung Bui Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 101	"audio sync in pal dvx100 There is an audio sync problem on ntsc models especially in progressive mode. Does the PAL models suffer from the same problem? Secondly how does the 25p mode look in PAL? is it very noticeably different from interlaced mode. People say its suppose to look more filmic, what does that mean?I get the impression that the lack of gain up and high lux needs seems to put alot of people of using it. It is one of the big selling points of the canon cameras.

May 30th, 2003, 11:06 AM	#2
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	dude, where did you hear about teh sync? More than likely the person who claims that has shot in 24p, then run an editor in either 25fps or 29fps without pulldown which could couse syncing to sway.. Either way you can get rid of it by adjusting the audio sample rate or by editing in native 24p. If you have ever shot a canon in frame mode this looks similar but much better as the cameras gamma settings are incredible. However its running 2 fields of true progressive (not standard frame), basically oversampling the original shot.. so you get 2frames of the same image x 25 times these 2 images arent interlaced but it can look that way sometimes... hard to explain, but either way, im about to fork out some hard earned cash for one... jsut the spark setting alone in 25p is enough for me.. (that and Panas Audio Recording heads are probably the best on the market)

May 30th, 2003, 09:26 PM	#3
Zac Stein Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 730	Spark setting? WHat are you refferring to there? Zac

May 30th, 2003, 09:37 PM	#4
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	there are six different congigs you can have.. theres one called spark... hard to describe, but offers a wonderful picture... :)

May 31st, 2003, 10:52 AM	#5
Tung Bui Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 101	Hi Peter, Yeah I got that from Adamwilt.com, this whiz who owns an ntsc one and he says its out of sync by two frames in 24p mode. Since we are getting 25p I was wondering if it was due that their funny 24fps. I dont see what the fuss about 24fps is since it was just the slowest acceptable speed they adopted for film years ago. I can understand wanting more dynamic range and resolution which film gives you. On the subject of progressive scan apparently only computer monitors can display that. On our tv the camera outputs a 50i signal so it can display it am I right? so how can you judge progressive if we cant display it properly? the same for dvd players, you need one that can play progressive to get the benefits dont you?

June 3rd, 2003, 07:05 AM	#6
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	most plasma and widescreen teles can now run progressive, also many dvd players only run progressive with interlacing done on the tv... the cam might say 24p mode, but in fact its running 25, with 1 frame difference. its still running 25p but the extra fframe is a double.. hence the 2:3:3:2 frame ratios etc.. im not very good with this stuff, as the pal runs 25p mode progressive so its easy for us and we get the same visual effect.. progressive is jsut the way the image is displyed, whether it be a series of "frames" (frame mode) or a interlation of frames with blended fields. the difference is artifacts, and the ability to offer teat film type look. On top of that if you intend on capturing stills from your editor frame mode provides beter results. your right, most people wouldnt benefit from 24p here in oz.. for one we cant have it due to power and voltages etc but frame mode is immaculate and cannot be faulted... on top of that, the pal mode offers a higher screen resolution and clearer colours than NTSC... a freind once mentioned NTSC stands for Not The Same Colour.. and you CAN tell teh difference. price is ridiculous thou.. u can get one from the US for about $5200 or you can buy one from Aus for $8000... the difference is amazing...

June 3rd, 2003, 10:02 PM	#7
Tung Bui Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 101	Has anyone used a pal dvx here in oz yet? My original post was to see if there was a synch problem on the pal models in 25p mode. We dont have 24p on pal. There was a recent review on videocamera magazine but they didnt mention this. I agree, its ridiculous what we pay here. I thought it was a free market. I'm going to Singpapore later in the year. Problem is customs will lug you with a 13% tax on the way back unless they dont see the cam or you convince them you owned it before leaving overseas.