Noise from the head drum at DVinfo.net

Bernhard Schmidt · February 25th, 2003, 08:47 AM

Hello here all,
my first posting here because I am an a new
(and proudly) owner of a MX300 since 4 weeks.
My old one is a NV-DS1 which I use since four
years works fine until today.

Now my question:
I did discover a noise from the head drum and
an dependence from the temperature.
The colder the louder noise I get.
I used my camcorder while ski driving at ten degrees
Celsius below zero where the noise was 'good' audible directly
at the cam and also in the presentation of the video.
The sound is a high sinus tone.
I have made the error to put my left hand (in
glove) on the left side of the mike. This had also
a negative effect to the noise but without the hand
at the mike the noise is anyway to loud.
In normal temperature of 20 degrees the
noise is nearly not audible and when the cam
is warm from using I it is not audible at all.

Is this behaviour normal or is there something wrong?

Bernhard

Frank Granovski · February 25th, 2003, 03:55 PM

Operating temperature for the MX300 is 0 to 40 C. What you need is a warming jacket, and to keep your battery warm (in your pocket) until you begin shooting. Winding clear plastic (the clingy sandwich wrap) around your cam's body and battery will keep the cam warmer for a longer time. Don't cover the sensors in the front of the cam. Another solution to extend the cold weather operation of the cam would be to buy the special under water/all weather housing for the MX300. The running of the cam inside this housing will keep in the cam's heat longer.

Perhaps when the tape gets cold it stiffens thus causing more noise with the heads. In normal temperatures, do you still get noise?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have lots to say, so ask away!

Bernhard Schmidt · February 26th, 2003, 01:37 AM

In normal temperature (above 20 degrees celsius) I nearly get no noise but at zero degree celsius I can notice the noise very
good.
I compared the noise with my old NV-DS1. With this one
I do not have such noise at low temparature.

BTW:
The motor noise for get the tape into on and off position (for
using the cam) and to rewind or fast forward the tape is much more louder with the MX300 than with the DS1.
A big advantage of the MX300 is the very short time from switching on the cam until to be able to start recording.

Frank Granovski · February 26th, 2003, 02:43 AM

Seems like the MX300 may not like cold weather shooting.

Graham Baker · February 27th, 2003, 03:43 AM

It could well be the bearings in the head drum tightening up - I think they use 'oil bearings' - the oil may become very viscous at low temps...
Not a problem down under - it never drops below freezing here (unless you go up to the snow) and most of the time the problem is heat & dust...
No noise from my MX300 at all - it's wonderfully quiet, especially compared to the LOUD whine from my old TRV900

Bernhard Schmidt · February 27th, 2003, 04:45 AM

Hello AngryofMayfair
When I switch on the cam, which is loaded with a tape,
then I can here the spin up of the head drum. It begins
with a low tone frequence and within a second it increases
until its highest frequence. This is appr. 5 khz (Like a whistle).
This tone you can hear louder or quiter,
which depends exactly where you do
position the cam to your ears.
If I put the cam before testing in an refrigerator the
noise is much more louder. When I check this noise via
a headphone which is connected to the cam
I can here the noise very good.
Is this normal or is there an error with the cam?

Frank Granovski · February 27th, 2003, 05:16 AM

Please don't put your cam in the fridge. That'll cause condensation when you take it out of the fridge (as it warms).

Robert Knecht Schmidt · February 27th, 2003, 05:27 AM

Be careful not to store your battery in the same pocket as your keys. A key may short the terminals and you'll find the battery getting warmer than you'd like it to be.

Steven Khong · February 28th, 2003, 02:11 AM

Hi, Bernhard. Welcome to the wonderful world of the MX300!

A few questions, to make sure:
1) did you just get the MX300, (4 weeks ago) as BRAND NEW, or as a SECOND HAND unit?

2) The head's whining noise when you first turn it on. How long does it last? 1 second? 5 seconds? 10 seconds?

3) Does this whining noise when you first turn it on, happen in normal room temperature?

4) Did you experience this whining noise with ONE tape, have you tried with a new tape?

5) Have you tried opening the cover of the tape? Press the little button at the side of the tape, and swing back the tape cover, look at the tape, is it folded up or "eaten up" at the edges?

6) Have you tried Frank's suggestions to keep the cam warm when you bring it to the cold outdoors?

All the best to you!

Bernhard Schmidt · February 28th, 2003, 06:15 AM

Hi Steven,

the MX300 is brand new.

Under normal room temperature the high frequence could be heard constantly 1 sec after turn on.

The loudness of the noise increases appr. 50% when the cam gets warm.

I have used Sony and Panasonic tapes. No diff.

I opened the tape to check the surface. There nothing to see like
folded up or "eaten up" at the edges.

Bernhard

Frank Granovski · February 28th, 2003, 06:26 AM

It sounds like that there may be something wrong with your cam. I have 1 MX300 (used to have 2)---little noise with both. In fact, I was amazed at how quiet the MX300 runs.

Graham Baker · March 4th, 2003, 09:33 PM

Hi Bernhard,
Sorry for not getting back to you sooner - I don't visit here often enough! :-)
It does seem as though your MX300 is a bit noisier than most although it's hard to say - what's loud to some folk may not be to others - ears (and opinions) vary. In general though I have to put my ear *very* close to hear any whine from my MX300 and I don't think I have ever heard it during playback from my stereo or headphones, so it's not being recorded.

I remember my very first camcorder - a Panasonic MS50 (S-VHS-C) and that had quite a distinct whine which I couldn't live with - I exchanged it for another brand new one the same day of purchase and that was close to 'whine-free' so it seems there is a range of tolerance for most of this stuff - yours seems to be on the edge of acceptable but I bet if you compare it with a lot of other cheaper cams (sony's in particular!) you will find it probably whines *less* than them!

Along a similar vien - Panasonic's HDD/DVD recorder the DMR-HS2 also seems to have quite large manufacturing tolerances - some of these units have an unacceptably loud whine from the HDD that have been returned and exchanged for 'silent' ones...

Yow Cheong Hoe · March 5th, 2003, 04:22 AM

Mechanincal and electronics are often statistical. That's why we always say, if it doesn't fail in the first month, it'll probably last 13 months, and fail when your warranty expires so that you'll buy a new piece!

But if it is really troubling you, please send it in to get a doctor to look at it.

Steven Khong · March 6th, 2003, 02:43 AM

Yes, maybe you should get Panasonic to look at it.

But before that, you may want to compare the tape head noise with another MX 300 cam, side by side. In normal temperature.

Most likely if you sent it in to Panasonic, & tell them you've put the cam in a fridge, they will say "you're past the operating limits of the camera"! I hope it doesn't invalidate your warranty (due to abuse / misuse)!

I doubt if Panasonic will put their cam into a fridge to make a comparison. They will just compare the tape head noise, in normal temperature, with one of their own MX300s.

If it's noticably noisier then they can proceed to do something about it. If it sounds the same, well, if you're out of warranty you may have to pay for the inspection charges.

Frank Granovski · March 7th, 2003, 04:57 AM

I forgot about these:

http://www.rei.com/online/store/Prod...&productId=581

February 25th, 2003, 08:47 AM	#1
Bernhard Schmidt New Boot Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Switzerland Posts: 5	Noise from the head drum Hello here all, my first posting here because I am an a new (and proudly) owner of a MX300 since 4 weeks. My old one is a NV-DS1 which I use since four years works fine until today. Now my question: I did discover a noise from the head drum and an dependence from the temperature. The colder the louder noise I get. I used my camcorder while ski driving at ten degrees Celsius below zero where the noise was 'good' audible directly at the cam and also in the presentation of the video. The sound is a high sinus tone. I have made the error to put my left hand (in glove) on the left side of the mike. This had also a negative effect to the noise but without the hand at the mike the noise is anyway to loud. In normal temperature of 20 degrees the noise is nearly not audible and when the cam is warm from using I it is not audible at all. Is this behaviour normal or is there something wrong? Bernhard

February 27th, 2003, 05:27 AM	#8
Robert Knecht Schmidt Wrangler Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 1,933	Be careful not to store your battery in the same pocket as your keys. A key may short the terminals and you'll find the battery getting warmer than you'd like it to be. __________________ All the best, Robert K S Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| The best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

February 25th, 2003, 03:55 PM	#2
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Operating temperature for the MX300 is 0 to 40 C. What you need is a warming jacket, and to keep your battery warm (in your pocket) until you begin shooting. Winding clear plastic (the clingy sandwich wrap) around your cam's body and battery will keep the cam warmer for a longer time. Don't cover the sensors in the front of the cam. Another solution to extend the cold weather operation of the cam would be to buy the special under water/all weather housing for the MX300. The running of the cam inside this housing will keep in the cam's heat longer. Perhaps when the tape gets cold it stiffens thus causing more noise with the heads. In normal temperatures, do you still get noise? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have lots to say, so ask away!

February 26th, 2003, 01:37 AM	#3
Bernhard Schmidt New Boot Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Switzerland Posts: 5	In normal temperature (above 20 degrees celsius) I nearly get no noise but at zero degree celsius I can notice the noise very good. I compared the noise with my old NV-DS1. With this one I do not have such noise at low temparature. BTW: The motor noise for get the tape into on and off position (for using the cam) and to rewind or fast forward the tape is much more louder with the MX300 than with the DS1. A big advantage of the MX300 is the very short time from switching on the cam until to be able to start recording.

February 26th, 2003, 02:43 AM	#4
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Seems like the MX300 may not like cold weather shooting.

February 27th, 2003, 03:43 AM	#5
Graham Baker Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 43	It could well be the bearings in the head drum tightening up - I think they use 'oil bearings' - the oil may become very viscous at low temps... Not a problem down under - it never drops below freezing here (unless you go up to the snow) and most of the time the problem is heat & dust... No noise from my MX300 at all - it's wonderfully quiet, especially compared to the LOUD whine from my old TRV900

February 27th, 2003, 04:45 AM	#6
Bernhard Schmidt New Boot Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Switzerland Posts: 5	Hello AngryofMayfair When I switch on the cam, which is loaded with a tape, then I can here the spin up of the head drum. It begins with a low tone frequence and within a second it increases until its highest frequence. This is appr. 5 khz (Like a whistle). This tone you can hear louder or quiter, which depends exactly where you do position the cam to your ears. If I put the cam before testing in an refrigerator the noise is much more louder. When I check this noise via a headphone which is connected to the cam I can here the noise very good. Is this normal or is there an error with the cam?

February 27th, 2003, 05:16 AM	#7
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Please don't put your cam in the fridge. That'll cause condensation when you take it out of the fridge (as it warms).

February 28th, 2003, 02:11 AM	#9
Steven Khong Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Petaling Jaya, Selangor, Malaysia Posts: 112	Hi, Bernhard. Welcome to the wonderful world of the MX300! A few questions, to make sure: 1) did you just get the MX300, (4 weeks ago) as BRAND NEW, or as a SECOND HAND unit? 2) The head's whining noise when you first turn it on. How long does it last? 1 second? 5 seconds? 10 seconds? 3) Does this whining noise when you first turn it on, happen in normal room temperature? 4) Did you experience this whining noise with ONE tape, have you tried with a new tape? 5) Have you tried opening the cover of the tape? Press the little button at the side of the tape, and swing back the tape cover, look at the tape, is it folded up or "eaten up" at the edges? 6) Have you tried Frank's suggestions to keep the cam warm when you bring it to the cold outdoors? All the best to you!

February 28th, 2003, 06:15 AM	#10
Bernhard Schmidt New Boot Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Switzerland Posts: 5	Hi Steven, the MX300 is brand new. Under normal room temperature the high frequence could be heard constantly 1 sec after turn on. The loudness of the noise increases appr. 50% when the cam gets warm. I have used Sony and Panasonic tapes. No diff. I opened the tape to check the surface. There nothing to see like folded up or "eaten up" at the edges. Bernhard

February 28th, 2003, 06:26 AM	#11
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	It sounds like that there may be something wrong with your cam. I have 1 MX300 (used to have 2)---little noise with both. In fact, I was amazed at how quiet the MX300 runs.

March 4th, 2003, 09:33 PM	#12
Graham Baker Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 43	Hi Bernhard, Sorry for not getting back to you sooner - I don't visit here often enough! :-) It does seem as though your MX300 is a bit noisier than most although it's hard to say - what's loud to some folk may not be to others - ears (and opinions) vary. In general though I have to put my ear very close to hear any whine from my MX300 and I don't think I have ever heard it during playback from my stereo or headphones, so it's not being recorded. I remember my very first camcorder - a Panasonic MS50 (S-VHS-C) and that had quite a distinct whine which I couldn't live with - I exchanged it for another brand new one the same day of purchase and that was close to 'whine-free' so it seems there is a range of tolerance for most of this stuff - yours seems to be on the edge of acceptable but I bet if you compare it with a lot of other cheaper cams (sony's in particular!) you will find it probably whines less than them! Along a similar vien - Panasonic's HDD/DVD recorder the DMR-HS2 also seems to have quite large manufacturing tolerances - some of these units have an unacceptably loud whine from the HDD that have been returned and exchanged for 'silent' ones...

March 5th, 2003, 04:22 AM	#13
Yow Cheong Hoe Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Singapore, Passport: Malaysia Posts: 407	Mechanincal and electronics are often statistical. That's why we always say, if it doesn't fail in the first month, it'll probably last 13 months, and fail when your warranty expires so that you'll buy a new piece! But if it is really troubling you, please send it in to get a doctor to look at it.

March 6th, 2003, 02:43 AM	#14
Steven Khong Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Petaling Jaya, Selangor, Malaysia Posts: 112	Yes, maybe you should get Panasonic to look at it. But before that, you may want to compare the tape head noise with another MX 300 cam, side by side. In normal temperature. Most likely if you sent it in to Panasonic, & tell them you've put the cam in a fridge, they will say "you're past the operating limits of the camera"! I hope it doesn't invalidate your warranty (due to abuse / misuse)! I doubt if Panasonic will put their cam into a fridge to make a comparison. They will just compare the tape head noise, in normal temperature, with one of their own MX300s. If it's noticably noisier then they can proceed to do something about it. If it sounds the same, well, if you're out of warranty you may have to pay for the inspection charges.

March 7th, 2003, 04:57 AM	#15
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	I forgot about these: http://www.rei.com/online/store/Prod...&productId=581