So is the DV953 the same as the MX5000?

Frank Granovski · January 22nd, 2004, 04:40 PM

Quote:

You didn't listen when I told you on Camcorderinfo that the price was too good to be true.

Oops. Schlock advertising on camcorderinfo too? Don't give your money to the schnooks. Have a swig of schnapps, shake your head and then order right, from http://www.bhphotovideo.com

David Andre · January 23rd, 2004, 06:39 PM

Thanks again for the advice. It is not too late to cancel the order and I've already confirmed with my bank that they will support me fully. Glad to hear this before it was too late!!!

David Andre · January 26th, 2004, 10:53 AM

For what it's worth, I spoke with Logan who promptly cancelled my order without any hassle. At least in this instance, their customer service was satisfactory (other than the long wait time on hold).

Now I am second guessing myself on whether I want the PV-DV953 or the PV-GS200. Should I wait? It's smaller, still has the manual focus ring, and is less expensive.

It supposedly has better low-light performance (even though it has smaller CCDs !?!) and I'm not too concerned about the still quality (if it isn't good enough for my taste I'll buy a digital still) only 16x9 video.

16x9 is a concern for me...the Panasonic guys say the 953 is fine with no loss in resolution, then I read differently on another post, the Canon guys say the Optura XI is better at 16 x 9.

It looks like the only two knocks on the DV953 are low light and a contovercial 16x9 mode. Strange for a 2003 Camcorder of the year winner.

Tommy Haupfear · January 26th, 2004, 03:09 PM

David, don't forget that the DV953 has optical image stabilization which will not be found on the GS200. For an idea of how poor the image stabilzatin is on the GS70 you might want to read the dvspot.com review.

http://www.dvspot.com/features

No one knows yet if the GS200 will be better in low light than the DV953 but they have the exact same 1/6" 3CCD arrangement and the megapixel count is 2.3MP (GS200) vs. 3.0MP (DV953) so low light is not going to be drastically different.

The 16:9 mode of the DV953 looks great on my 16:9 TVs and its a lot better than the GS70 and will likely be better than the GS120 and GS200.

That and the GS120 and GS200 will likely not have the advanced feature set of the DV953.

I don't think you'll see many DV953 users scrambling to upgrade but these lessers cams will be ok if you're in a pinch for funds.

Allan Rejoso · January 26th, 2004, 06:45 PM

I expect the GS200 to be an improvement over the GS70 in terms of image quality bec of a better engine. It's going to have the same Crystal engine as that of GS100.

The GS200 wont have the same enhanced 16:9 mode as the 953 but its low-light should be cleaner. I understand the GS200 will use less dense CCDs than that of 953.

David, if youre interested on the GS200, then find a chance to hold a GS70 and test the stabilizer yourself. I dont see any major problem with the image stabilizer and handling of the GS70 (excellent balance actually), unless you have HUGE hands. I just retested that particular function last weekend. No disrespect to dvspot.com. But between the 953 and GS70, the 953 is a whole lot more cam.

Tommy Haupfear · January 26th, 2004, 07:12 PM

Allan, its interesting that you didn't see a problem with the GS70 image stabilzation. I tested locally (Circuit City) and I just figured their demo unit was busted until I saw the dvspot review that echoed my thoughts.

Maybe I'm just spoiled by OIS. :)

Yow Cheong Hoe · January 26th, 2004, 07:29 PM

I have tried the GS70 in the shops, the digital stabiliser is rather jerky compared to the optical stabiliser on my MX350 and an MX500 from the shop.

Allan Rejoso · January 26th, 2004, 08:37 PM

That's why David has to try and hold a GS70 by himself due to this contradicting impressions on the GS70 stabilizer. Even published Jap reviews of the GS70 did not mention any complains on this particular function. In fact, there was one published shoot-out (with matching CD-Rom containing sample files) of something like more than 10 cams last year wherein the Jap reviewer gave higher marks on the image stabilizer of the GS70 compared to most other cams including the MX5K. I found that rather surprising though. BTW, the same review gave the highest overall marks on the MX5K.

Frank Granovski · January 26th, 2004, 09:15 PM

I find DIS works very well in good lighting, but terrible in low lighting. Perhaps this is why some find the GS70's terrible while others don't.

David Andre · January 26th, 2004, 10:54 PM

Thanks for all of the help guys! I'm pretty sure I want OIS, I did play with the GS70 a little but haven't tested the DIS yet.

I must have missed the part about the GS200 not having OIS, is this from a trusted source? And I suppose the English version of the NV-GS100 is a long ways out? My wife is due on 3/31 and I'm hoping to get some 8-9 month pregnancy shots too.

Stupid JVC GR-DVM70 broke...what a piece of garbage, hardly used it in 4-5 years and when I finally need it ... well I won't get started.

Yow Cheong Hoe · January 27th, 2004, 02:02 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by David Andre : Thanks for all of the help guys! I'm pretty sure I want OIS, I did play with the GS70 a little but haven't tested the DIS yet.

I must have missed the part about the GS200 not having OIS, is this from a trusted source? And I suppose the English version of the NV-GS100 is a long ways out? My wife is due on 3/31 and I'm hoping to get some 8-9 month pregnancy shots too.

Stupid JVC GR-DVM70 broke...what a piece of garbage, hardly used it in 4-5 years and when I finally need it ... well I won't get started. -->>>

My wife is also due about that time, but probably earlier. My first daughter was 10 days early. That means that you have 6 weeks to get a cam and get used to it. I suggest that you stop waiting and start buying.

4 to 5 years is a good time to break down, today's plastics are designed to disintegrate in about 5 years to ensure that consumers buy replacement units! hahahaha! Plastics of 30 years ago are much better, my daughter is eating out of the same plastic cereal bowl that was used to feed me 30 years ago!

The main difference of DIS/EIS and OIs is the 'feel' of the scene. On OIS, when you run out of the 'range' of the stabiliser, you get your real vibrations, which is 'natural'. On DIS/EIS, it gets super jerky as it tries to be smart and corrects itself by re-centering the image. For slow pans, OIS or DIS/EIS should be off, but even then, OIS will behave better than DIS/EIS. I have scenes jumping to re-center on pans on DIS/EIS but not on OIS cams.

January 23rd, 2004, 06:39 PM	#17
David Andre New Boot Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 8	Thanks again for the advice. It is not too late to cancel the order and I've already confirmed with my bank that they will support me fully. Glad to hear this before it was too late!!!

January 26th, 2004, 10:53 AM	#18
David Andre New Boot Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 8	For what it's worth, I spoke with Logan who promptly cancelled my order without any hassle. At least in this instance, their customer service was satisfactory (other than the long wait time on hold). Now I am second guessing myself on whether I want the PV-DV953 or the PV-GS200. Should I wait? It's smaller, still has the manual focus ring, and is less expensive. It supposedly has better low-light performance (even though it has smaller CCDs !?!) and I'm not too concerned about the still quality (if it isn't good enough for my taste I'll buy a digital still) only 16x9 video. 16x9 is a concern for me...the Panasonic guys say the 953 is fine with no loss in resolution, then I read differently on another post, the Canon guys say the Optura XI is better at 16 x 9. It looks like the only two knocks on the DV953 are low light and a contovercial 16x9 mode. Strange for a 2003 Camcorder of the year winner.

January 26th, 2004, 03:09 PM	#19
Tommy Haupfear Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 1,415	David, don't forget that the DV953 has optical image stabilization which will not be found on the GS200. For an idea of how poor the image stabilzatin is on the GS70 you might want to read the dvspot.com review. http://www.dvspot.com/features No one knows yet if the GS200 will be better in low light than the DV953 but they have the exact same 1/6" 3CCD arrangement and the megapixel count is 2.3MP (GS200) vs. 3.0MP (DV953) so low light is not going to be drastically different. The 16:9 mode of the DV953 looks great on my 16:9 TVs and its a lot better than the GS70 and will likely be better than the GS120 and GS200. That and the GS120 and GS200 will likely not have the advanced feature set of the DV953. I don't think you'll see many DV953 users scrambling to upgrade but these lessers cams will be ok if you're in a pinch for funds.

January 26th, 2004, 06:45 PM	#20
Allan Rejoso Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 569	I expect the GS200 to be an improvement over the GS70 in terms of image quality bec of a better engine. It's going to have the same Crystal engine as that of GS100. The GS200 wont have the same enhanced 16:9 mode as the 953 but its low-light should be cleaner. I understand the GS200 will use less dense CCDs than that of 953. David, if youre interested on the GS200, then find a chance to hold a GS70 and test the stabilizer yourself. I dont see any major problem with the image stabilizer and handling of the GS70 (excellent balance actually), unless you have HUGE hands. I just retested that particular function last weekend. No disrespect to dvspot.com. But between the 953 and GS70, the 953 is a whole lot more cam.

January 26th, 2004, 07:12 PM	#21
Tommy Haupfear Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 1,415	Allan, its interesting that you didn't see a problem with the GS70 image stabilzation. I tested locally (Circuit City) and I just figured their demo unit was busted until I saw the dvspot review that echoed my thoughts. Maybe I'm just spoiled by OIS. :)

January 26th, 2004, 07:29 PM	#22
Yow Cheong Hoe Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Singapore, Passport: Malaysia Posts: 407	I have tried the GS70 in the shops, the digital stabiliser is rather jerky compared to the optical stabiliser on my MX350 and an MX500 from the shop.

January 26th, 2004, 08:37 PM	#23
Allan Rejoso Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 569	That's why David has to try and hold a GS70 by himself due to this contradicting impressions on the GS70 stabilizer. Even published Jap reviews of the GS70 did not mention any complains on this particular function. In fact, there was one published shoot-out (with matching CD-Rom containing sample files) of something like more than 10 cams last year wherein the Jap reviewer gave higher marks on the image stabilizer of the GS70 compared to most other cams including the MX5K. I found that rather surprising though. BTW, the same review gave the highest overall marks on the MX5K.

January 26th, 2004, 09:15 PM	#24
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	I find DIS works very well in good lighting, but terrible in low lighting. Perhaps this is why some find the GS70's terrible while others don't.

January 26th, 2004, 10:54 PM	#25
David Andre New Boot Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 8	Thanks for all of the help guys! I'm pretty sure I want OIS, I did play with the GS70 a little but haven't tested the DIS yet. I must have missed the part about the GS200 not having OIS, is this from a trusted source? And I suppose the English version of the NV-GS100 is a long ways out? My wife is due on 3/31 and I'm hoping to get some 8-9 month pregnancy shots too. Stupid JVC GR-DVM70 broke...what a piece of garbage, hardly used it in 4-5 years and when I finally need it ... well I won't get started.

January 27th, 2004, 02:02 AM	#26
Yow Cheong Hoe Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Singapore, Passport: Malaysia Posts: 407	<<<-- Originally posted by David Andre : Thanks for all of the help guys! I'm pretty sure I want OIS, I did play with the GS70 a little but haven't tested the DIS yet. I must have missed the part about the GS200 not having OIS, is this from a trusted source? And I suppose the English version of the NV-GS100 is a long ways out? My wife is due on 3/31 and I'm hoping to get some 8-9 month pregnancy shots too. Stupid JVC GR-DVM70 broke...what a piece of garbage, hardly used it in 4-5 years and when I finally need it ... well I won't get started. -->>> My wife is also due about that time, but probably earlier. My first daughter was 10 days early. That means that you have 6 weeks to get a cam and get used to it. I suggest that you stop waiting and start buying. 4 to 5 years is a good time to break down, today's plastics are designed to disintegrate in about 5 years to ensure that consumers buy replacement units! hahahaha! Plastics of 30 years ago are much better, my daughter is eating out of the same plastic cereal bowl that was used to feed me 30 years ago! The main difference of DIS/EIS and OIs is the 'feel' of the scene. On OIS, when you run out of the 'range' of the stabiliser, you get your real vibrations, which is 'natural'. On DIS/EIS, it gets super jerky as it tries to be smart and corrects itself by re-centering the image. For slow pans, OIS or DIS/EIS should be off, but even then, OIS will behave better than DIS/EIS. I have scenes jumping to re-center on pans on DIS/EIS but not on OIS cams.