NV-GS400K Announced on Panasonic Japan Site

Allan Rejoso · June 16th, 2004, 07:03 PM

Follow the color code (reminds me of the Tokyo Metro system :-)

Left side: GS100K widescreen
Black rectangle I guess is the full CCD area
Area surrounded by the green line represents the effective area for normal (4:3) mode
Superimposed is the gray rectangle representing the captured area under wide mode (not cinema mode).

Right side: GS400K widescreen
Again black rectangle should be the full CCD area and area around the green line represents captured area under 4:3 mode.
Superimposed is the orange rectangle showing the captured area under wide mode.

The numbers should be self-explanatory.
It's quite clear that GS400 has reduced the vertical resolution loss and increased the horizontal angle of view compared to the GS100.

Jap texts (blue and red) under the rightmost rectangle literally translates to "ALMOST the same high definition (quality) achieved when shooting under normal (4:3) mode is realized."

Regarding the TV illustrations at the bottom, those are the usual illustrations contained in the Jap manuals to differentiate the various modes of shooting when viewed at 3 kinds of TVs.

Column headings (from left to right)
Normal Mode
Cinema Mode
Wide/Procinema Mode

Row headings (from top to bottom)
Playback on normal TV through S terminal
Playback on widescreen TV compatible with S1 (video) signal
Playback on widescreen TV compatible with S1/S2 (video) signal

Here's the intriguing part. Please have a look at the illustrations under Row1, Columns 1 and 3 (playback on normal TV of video taken under normal mode AND wide/procinema mode respectively). Do you notice any difference? I don't.

Next, for those who own the GS100, please take a look at page 61 of the Jap manual. For MX5000 owners, please check page 45.

I won't make any conclusions, but Ifd love to hear your comments on this :-))

There also seem to be some changes (improvements) in the way cinema mode is projected through older widescreen TV (S1)

Allan Rejoso · June 16th, 2004, 08:38 PM

Oops, sorry I realized that many members and guests of this forum may not have access to the Jap manuals of the GS100 and MX5000, so let me describe them.

Similar illustrations in the GS100 and MX5K manuals of the various shooting modes as viewed on different TVs show that widescreen/procinema modes when viewed on a normal TV are stretched vertically (or squeezed horizontally). Thus, that dot on the center appears oval shaped. On the other hand, for cinema mode viewed on a S1 compatible widescreen TV, the image appears to be stretched horizontally.

Mikhail Transact · June 17th, 2004, 04:07 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Allan Rejoso :

Here's the intriguing part. Please have a look at the illustrations under Row1, Columns 1 and 3 (playback on normal TV of video taken under normal mode AND wide/procinema mode respectively). Do you notice any difference? I don't.

>>>

I believe third column must contents oval not circle. "Narrow faces" another word. It’s usual situation for looking anamorpic picture on the old TV set. Now, I suppose, all modern 4:3 TV has 16:9 mode compatibility. According this compatibility, picture looks like column 2 shows.

Carlos E. Martinez · June 17th, 2004, 06:18 AM

The GS400 is alrady being offered for £1040.00 here:

http://www.shopgenie.co.uk/UK_listing/gen_1/J000076723.html

What price NTSC will be is a mistery. B & H is silent for now.

Carlos

Carlos E. Martinez · June 17th, 2004, 06:25 AM

Another GS400 retailer. This time with a $1698 package price.

http://www.worldtradevideo.com/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/wtv/panasonic_pvgs400.html?E+wtv

Anyone knows who is World Trade Video?

A Google search will get you mostly European threads.

Carlos

Kamal Tailor · June 17th, 2004, 08:09 AM

i think the GS400 will be a PAL based Camera with the the capability to record in NTSC

easier to make a camera that way, cos you only have to add a little more to the chips to down convert a PAL signal into an NTSC one, which runs at 720x480 30fps where as PAL runs at 720x625 25fps.

and usually Progressive for PAL is 25fps
Film is 24fps
and NTSC is 30fps

NTSC has a few of issues converting film frames of 24fps to 30fps

but these days they have algorythems to make it easier

Carlos E. Martinez · June 17th, 2004, 08:16 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Kamal Tailor : i think the GS400 will be a PAL based Camera with the the capability to record in NTSC

easier to make a camera that way, cos you only have to add a little more to the chips to down convert a PAL signal into an NTSC one, which runs at 720x480 30fps where as PAL runs at 720x625 25fps.

and usually Progressive for PAL is 25fps
Film is 24fps
and NTSC is 30fps

NTSC has a few of issues converting film frames of 24fps to 30fps

but these days they have algorythems to make it easier -->>>

In theory that would be great, particularly for me, but things are not so easy. Much more complicated that you think. Using algorythms wouldn't be the cleaner way to do it and quality suffers.

System conversion might be a thing in the future, when they get to a unique universal digital system, with different outputs for different video systems.

Carlos

Kamal Tailor · June 17th, 2004, 09:23 AM

yeah i didn't think it would be but i was trying to simplify it a little for ppl and trying to explain to ppl that don't understand what progressive or how they might go about making the camera

it might be a different signal chip that gets changed over for the PAL and the NTSC versions

but i'd still go for a PAL version cos of it's higher resolution output and it's closer to the framerate of Cinematic movies

hmmm i wonder if there is a high speed shutter mode for procinema mode

oooer would that be cool =)

especially for those Kung Fu Action sequences ;)
hehehe j/k

Guy Bruner · June 17th, 2004, 10:21 AM

From what I can gather reading the Japanese specs and all, the improvements over the DV953 are as follows:

12X vs. 10X Zoom
60,000 more pixels in 4:3 video
271,152 more pixels in 16:9
Wider horizontal field of view in 16:9
Pro-cinema Widescreen mode
3 lux better low light performance
Improved video processing (Crystal Engine) should reduce low light noise and grain
4 Mpxl vs. 3 Mpxl stills to SD card
1.2 Mpxl still to SD while videoing
High Speed USB (allows real time video to PC)
Smooth color nightview
Tele-macro focus
Power LCD
Dual function Focus/Zoom ring
Beauty skin mode

Big functional decrease from DV953, IMO, is the loss of the jog dial and having to use the LCD when in manual mode.

Did I miss anything significant?

Tommy Haupfear · June 17th, 2004, 11:47 AM

Guy, that sounds good to me. Thanks!

Allan Rejoso · June 17th, 2004, 07:35 PM

.. having to use the LCD when in manual mode.

That may not be necessary Guy. The GS400 shares the basic layout of the GS200 (Pany's new universal design that is). If I remember correctly, the slide switch to activate manual mode is still located somewhere on the top left portion of the rubber-like grip area.

Note that GS400 has 3 buttons located (near the lens barrel) at the front of the LCD panel. The top 2 buttons are used to switch the function of the ring among shutter speed, f-stop/gain, manual focus and zoom. The lowermost button I believe is the white balance button.

So it may seem that Pany Japan read the rants of Bogdan :-)) on this board as regards the inconvenience of the new universal design when it comes to manual mode shooting and seems to have cleverly solved it.

The way I see it, there are 2 ways to perform manual shooting; 1st, through the cross-layout buttons (I'm literally translating the Jap term for that conspicuous thing) located inside the LCD panel and 2nd, through the multi-function ring and those 3 buttons near the lens barrel.

Well of course I'm still guessing based on available info. So let's verify once this cam is finally out.

Allan Rejoso · June 17th, 2004, 07:56 PM

For shooters like me who have difficulty in reaching and operating the jog wheel while actually shooting (I normally use my left hand to do it, instead of my right thumb or pointing finger), placement of the manual function buttons at the left front side of the cam may prove to be better.

That multi-function ring sure is going to be convenient.

Michael Struthers · June 17th, 2004, 08:24 PM

kewl!!

I traded my gs100 in for an Optura xi for the bigger chip and better 16x9 mode...

Here's my question: Does the new gs400 "compensate" with a 1.04 (%4.00) boost to vert resolution like the gs100? Or is it a "clean" 16x9?

Also any word on the audio capabilities?

I wanna know, and I want one!

Tommy Haupfear · June 17th, 2004, 08:40 PM

Quote:

I traded my gs100 in for an Optura xi for the bigger chip and better 16x9 mode...

I did the exact opposite and I although I missed the higher 16:9 resolution of the Xi I found the GS100 video to be more pleasing.

Funny how the Xi has that massive CCD but struggles in low light just as much as the GS100 (or any other 1/6" 3CCD). I think the larger CCDs are just to accommodate the plethora of pixels as its the same configuration found on the Sony 2MP single chippers with similar performance.

Michael, it appears the GS400, with almost identical pixel/CCD configuration as the PDX10, will have a superior 16:9 mode to the GS100.

Here is the illustration showing the 200k pixel difference between the GS100 and GS400 16:9.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-...GS400_Wide.JPG

Allan Rejoso · June 17th, 2004, 08:49 PM

Michael, based on what I've seen on the Optura Xi , the latest Optura I played with recentily that use the same 2.2MP CCD, and the illustrations of Pany Japan posted on this thread, I'm convinced that the Optura is better in 16X9 mode...IMO, the best consumer cam in the market right now in terms of widescreen mode. If that were the only basis of buying a cam ne?

No info regarding the percent boost to vert resolution on the GS400 (or is it there somewhere?).

Audio capabilities and manual settings seem to be identical to that of GS100.

I want LANC!

June 17th, 2004, 04:07 AM	#18
Mikhail Transact Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 60	<<<-- Originally posted by Allan Rejoso : Here's the intriguing part. Please have a look at the illustrations under Row1, Columns 1 and 3 (playback on normal TV of video taken under normal mode AND wide/procinema mode respectively). Do you notice any difference? I don't. >>> I believe third column must contents oval not circle. "Narrow faces" another word. It’s usual situation for looking anamorpic picture on the old TV set. Now, I suppose, all modern 4:3 TV has 16:9 mode compatibility. According this compatibility, picture looks like column 2 shows. __________________ Mikhail

June 17th, 2004, 10:21 AM	#24
Guy Bruner Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ashford, AL Posts: 937	From what I can gather reading the Japanese specs and all, the improvements over the DV953 are as follows: 12X vs. 10X Zoom 60,000 more pixels in 4:3 video 271,152 more pixels in 16:9 Wider horizontal field of view in 16:9 Pro-cinema Widescreen mode 3 lux better low light performance Improved video processing (Crystal Engine) should reduce low light noise and grain 4 Mpxl vs. 3 Mpxl stills to SD card 1.2 Mpxl still to SD while videoing High Speed USB (allows real time video to PC) Smooth color nightview Tele-macro focus Power LCD Dual function Focus/Zoom ring Beauty skin mode Big functional decrease from DV953, IMO, is the loss of the jog dial and having to use the LCD when in manual mode. Did I miss anything significant?

June 17th, 2004, 08:24 PM	#28
Michael Struthers Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: SF, Ca Posts: 421	kewl!! I traded my gs100 in for an Optura xi for the bigger chip and better 16x9 mode... Here's my question: Does the new gs400 "compensate" with a 1.04 (%4.00) boost to vert resolution like the gs100? Or is it a "clean" 16x9? Also any word on the audio capabilities? I wanna know, and I want one! __________________ Michael Struthers www.buzzdigital.com

June 16th, 2004, 07:03 PM	#16
Allan Rejoso Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 569	Follow the color code (reminds me of the Tokyo Metro system :-) Left side: GS100K widescreen Black rectangle I guess is the full CCD area Area surrounded by the green line represents the effective area for normal (4:3) mode Superimposed is the gray rectangle representing the captured area under wide mode (not cinema mode). Right side: GS400K widescreen Again black rectangle should be the full CCD area and area around the green line represents captured area under 4:3 mode. Superimposed is the orange rectangle showing the captured area under wide mode. The numbers should be self-explanatory. It's quite clear that GS400 has reduced the vertical resolution loss and increased the horizontal angle of view compared to the GS100. Jap texts (blue and red) under the rightmost rectangle literally translates to "ALMOST the same high definition (quality) achieved when shooting under normal (4:3) mode is realized." Regarding the TV illustrations at the bottom, those are the usual illustrations contained in the Jap manuals to differentiate the various modes of shooting when viewed at 3 kinds of TVs. Column headings (from left to right) Normal Mode Cinema Mode Wide/Procinema Mode Row headings (from top to bottom) Playback on normal TV through S terminal Playback on widescreen TV compatible with S1 (video) signal Playback on widescreen TV compatible with S1/S2 (video) signal Here's the intriguing part. Please have a look at the illustrations under Row1, Columns 1 and 3 (playback on normal TV of video taken under normal mode AND wide/procinema mode respectively). Do you notice any difference? I don't. Next, for those who own the GS100, please take a look at page 61 of the Jap manual. For MX5000 owners, please check page 45. I won't make any conclusions, but Ifd love to hear your comments on this :-)) There also seem to be some changes (improvements) in the way cinema mode is projected through older widescreen TV (S1)

June 16th, 2004, 08:38 PM	#17
Allan Rejoso Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 569	Oops, sorry I realized that many members and guests of this forum may not have access to the Jap manuals of the GS100 and MX5000, so let me describe them. Similar illustrations in the GS100 and MX5K manuals of the various shooting modes as viewed on different TVs show that widescreen/procinema modes when viewed on a normal TV are stretched vertically (or squeezed horizontally). Thus, that dot on the center appears oval shaped. On the other hand, for cinema mode viewed on a S1 compatible widescreen TV, the image appears to be stretched horizontally.

June 17th, 2004, 06:18 AM	#19
Carlos E. Martinez Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil Posts: 1,138	The GS400 is alrady being offered for £1040.00 here: http://www.shopgenie.co.uk/UK_listing/gen_1/J000076723.html What price NTSC will be is a mistery. B & H is silent for now. Carlos

June 17th, 2004, 06:25 AM	#20
Carlos E. Martinez Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil Posts: 1,138	Another GS400 retailer. This time with a $1698 package price. http://www.worldtradevideo.com/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/wtv/panasonic_pvgs400.html?E+wtv Anyone knows who is World Trade Video? A Google search will get you mostly European threads. Carlos

June 17th, 2004, 08:09 AM	#21
Kamal Tailor Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Australia, Victoria, Melbourne Posts: 65	i think the GS400 will be a PAL based Camera with the the capability to record in NTSC easier to make a camera that way, cos you only have to add a little more to the chips to down convert a PAL signal into an NTSC one, which runs at 720x480 30fps where as PAL runs at 720x625 25fps. and usually Progressive for PAL is 25fps Film is 24fps and NTSC is 30fps NTSC has a few of issues converting film frames of 24fps to 30fps but these days they have algorythems to make it easier

June 17th, 2004, 08:16 AM	#22
Carlos E. Martinez Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil Posts: 1,138	<<<-- Originally posted by Kamal Tailor : i think the GS400 will be a PAL based Camera with the the capability to record in NTSC easier to make a camera that way, cos you only have to add a little more to the chips to down convert a PAL signal into an NTSC one, which runs at 720x480 30fps where as PAL runs at 720x625 25fps. and usually Progressive for PAL is 25fps Film is 24fps and NTSC is 30fps NTSC has a few of issues converting film frames of 24fps to 30fps but these days they have algorythems to make it easier -->>> In theory that would be great, particularly for me, but things are not so easy. Much more complicated that you think. Using algorythms wouldn't be the cleaner way to do it and quality suffers. System conversion might be a thing in the future, when they get to a unique universal digital system, with different outputs for different video systems. Carlos

June 17th, 2004, 09:23 AM	#23
Kamal Tailor Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Australia, Victoria, Melbourne Posts: 65	yeah i didn't think it would be but i was trying to simplify it a little for ppl and trying to explain to ppl that don't understand what progressive or how they might go about making the camera it might be a different signal chip that gets changed over for the PAL and the NTSC versions but i'd still go for a PAL version cos of it's higher resolution output and it's closer to the framerate of Cinematic movies hmmm i wonder if there is a high speed shutter mode for procinema mode oooer would that be cool =) especially for those Kung Fu Action sequences ;) hehehe j/k

June 17th, 2004, 11:47 AM	#25
Tommy Haupfear Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 1,415	Guy, that sounds good to me. Thanks!

June 17th, 2004, 07:35 PM	#26
Allan Rejoso Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 569	.. having to use the LCD when in manual mode. That may not be necessary Guy. The GS400 shares the basic layout of the GS200 (Pany's new universal design that is). If I remember correctly, the slide switch to activate manual mode is still located somewhere on the top left portion of the rubber-like grip area. Note that GS400 has 3 buttons located (near the lens barrel) at the front of the LCD panel. The top 2 buttons are used to switch the function of the ring among shutter speed, f-stop/gain, manual focus and zoom. The lowermost button I believe is the white balance button. So it may seem that Pany Japan read the rants of Bogdan :-)) on this board as regards the inconvenience of the new universal design when it comes to manual mode shooting and seems to have cleverly solved it. The way I see it, there are 2 ways to perform manual shooting; 1st, through the cross-layout buttons (I'm literally translating the Jap term for that conspicuous thing) located inside the LCD panel and 2nd, through the multi-function ring and those 3 buttons near the lens barrel. Well of course I'm still guessing based on available info. So let's verify once this cam is finally out.

June 17th, 2004, 07:56 PM	#27
Allan Rejoso Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 569	For shooters like me who have difficulty in reaching and operating the jog wheel while actually shooting (I normally use my left hand to do it, instead of my right thumb or pointing finger), placement of the manual function buttons at the left front side of the cam may prove to be better. That multi-function ring sure is going to be convenient.

June 17th, 2004, 08:49 PM	#30
Allan Rejoso Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 569	Michael, based on what I've seen on the Optura Xi , the latest Optura I played with recentily that use the same 2.2MP CCD, and the illustrations of Pany Japan posted on this thread, I'm convinced that the Optura is better in 16X9 mode...IMO, the best consumer cam in the market right now in terms of widescreen mode. If that were the only basis of buying a cam ne? No info regarding the percent boost to vert resolution on the GS400 (or is it there somewhere?). Audio capabilities and manual settings seem to be identical to that of GS100. I want LANC!