wide-screen mode? at DVinfo.net

George Beck · May 15th, 2004, 10:41 AM

can someone shed some light on the following:

MX500:
from the power-point slides (available on dvfreak.com) with no zooming we get
834x768 croped to 720x576 ?

GS100
from the Pana-Jap page
934x576 - croped to 720x460 and 1.04 zoom to 720x480 ?

Tommy Haupfear · May 15th, 2004, 11:28 AM

There has been a lot of speculation on those slides. The Japanese NTSC MX5000 has a 1.3x vertical zoom to achieve its anamorphic widescreen mode. That probably means the same for the NTSC DV953 but the only thing I guess is that PAL got the better model (figures since they got the better TV standard too). :)

Either that or the Powerpoint slides are inaccurate. You can verify the 1.04 and 1.3 of the GS100 and MX5000 on the Panasonic.jp site.

The numbers just don't make sense and you have to wonder why NTSC DV953 and MX5000 couldn't have a non vertical zoom like the MX500 (if its true).

Mikhail Transact · May 15th, 2004, 11:33 AM

MiniDV and DVD PAL is 720x576. Both 4:3 and anamorphic 16:9 has the same size. The differences are pixel aspect ratio (16/15 for 4:3 and 64/45 for 16:9).
NTSC pixel aspect ratio is 8/9 for 4:3 and 32/37 for 16:9. And 720õ480.

I think all another frame sizes are acpect recalculation for correct representation on computer screen.

Real CCD pixel count is another story.

Tommy Haupfear · May 15th, 2004, 11:39 AM

That is correct Mikhail, but the odd part is that both cams are dealing with the same amount of pixels but for whatever reason the lower resolution NTSC MX5000 and DV953 have vertical zoom.

Would be nice to "tweak" the firmware on a MX5000/DV953.

George Beck · May 15th, 2004, 11:55 AM

and even GS100 have a vertical zoom. (even tho small one)

is the GS100 Pal or NTSC?

Guy Bruner · May 15th, 2004, 12:08 PM

GS100, MX5000...are all NTSC. Japan uses the same system as North America.

Guy Bruner · May 15th, 2004, 12:15 PM

WRT the above mentioned slides. Take a look at

THIS SLIDE

It was posted on supervideo's website for a long time. I still have the .BMP version if anyone wants an original copy. Forgery??

Tommy Haupfear · May 15th, 2004, 12:40 PM

Guy, I would have to say forgery since MX5000 and MX3000 are NTSC cams and the final anamorphically squeezed resolution should be 720x480 but that photo still references PAL's 720x576.

George Beck · May 15th, 2004, 01:00 PM

hmmm.. did someone made this up to... hmm i don't know.. sell those cams? =)

where does the 934x768 come from? =717k on a cam with 640k active pixels... and when "croped" to 576 suddenly the "934" turns into 720?
and thats not NTSC 720x480 but PAL standart.

and.. 576 HRL .. on a miniDV? Pana will never claim this IMO.

but the slide looks very professional on other hand... =/
and looks like the rest of the slides contain accurate information...

Frank Granovski · May 15th, 2004, 01:06 PM

Those slides talked about, are those the ones I have on my site? The ones I have on my site are of the PAL NV-MX500A and they are from Pana Technical.

George Beck · May 15th, 2004, 02:10 PM

Frank, check the slide we talk about. Guy even posted direct link to it. here it is again:

http://fortvir.net/modules.php?set_a...view_photo.php

as you see it says MX5000
so probably it's not the yours you think of.

Mikhail Transact · May 15th, 2004, 02:38 PM

I have nothing to say about MX3000/MX5000. But I can say few words about MX500 widescreen mode.

This is a picture that illustrated CCD usage in 4:3 (yellow border) and 16:9 (blue) modes:
http://www.videomax.ru/tests/capaso/data/grid_MX500.jpg

This chart is result of shooting using special grid:
4:3 (690k) http://www.videomax.ru/tests/capaso/..._MX500_4x3.jpg
16:9 http://www.videomax.ru/tests/capaso/...MX500_16x9.jpg

Tom E Young · May 15th, 2004, 04:15 PM

Which model has best widescreen?

Tommy Haupfear · May 15th, 2004, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Which model has best widescreen?

Just looking at NTSC models the MX5000 and DV953 have the same widescreen mode which is hiqh quality. The GS100 goes a step further by widening the angle of view and with less resolution loss.

To date (and under $5000 USD) the best native 4:3 cam with a HQ widescreen mode is the Sony DSR-PDX10. The downside is that it costs twice as much as the Panasonic 3CCDs and of course its not a Panasonic. :)

Frank Granovski · May 15th, 2004, 05:48 PM

Don't forget that the PDX10 is also black like the mamba.

May 15th, 2004, 10:41 AM	#1
George Beck Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 244	wide-screen mode? can someone shed some light on the following: MX500: from the power-point slides (available on dvfreak.com) with no zooming we get 834x768 croped to 720x576 ? GS100 from the Pana-Jap page 934x576 - croped to 720x460 and 1.04 zoom to 720x480 ?

May 15th, 2004, 11:33 AM	#3
Mikhail Transact Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 60	MiniDV and DVD PAL is 720x576. Both 4:3 and anamorphic 16:9 has the same size. The differences are pixel aspect ratio (16/15 for 4:3 and 64/45 for 16:9). NTSC pixel aspect ratio is 8/9 for 4:3 and 32/37 for 16:9. And 720õ480. I think all another frame sizes are acpect recalculation for correct representation on computer screen. Real CCD pixel count is another story. __________________ Mikhail

May 15th, 2004, 01:00 PM	#9
George Beck Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 244	re: slide hmmm.. did someone made this up to... hmm i don't know.. sell those cams? =) where does the 934x768 come from? =717k on a cam with 640k active pixels... and when "croped" to 576 suddenly the "934" turns into 720? and thats not NTSC 720x480 but PAL standart. and.. 576 HRL .. on a miniDV? Pana will never claim this IMO. but the slide looks very professional on other hand... =/ and looks like the rest of the slides contain accurate information...

May 15th, 2004, 02:38 PM	#12
Mikhail Transact Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 60	I have nothing to say about MX3000/MX5000. But I can say few words about MX500 widescreen mode. This is a picture that illustrated CCD usage in 4:3 (yellow border) and 16:9 (blue) modes: http://www.videomax.ru/tests/capaso/data/grid_MX500.jpg This chart is result of shooting using special grid: 4:3 (690k) http://www.videomax.ru/tests/capaso/..._MX500_4x3.jpg 16:9 http://www.videomax.ru/tests/capaso/...MX500_16x9.jpg __________________ Mikhail

May 15th, 2004, 11:28 AM	#2
Tommy Haupfear Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 1,415	There has been a lot of speculation on those slides. The Japanese NTSC MX5000 has a 1.3x vertical zoom to achieve its anamorphic widescreen mode. That probably means the same for the NTSC DV953 but the only thing I guess is that PAL got the better model (figures since they got the better TV standard too). :) Either that or the Powerpoint slides are inaccurate. You can verify the 1.04 and 1.3 of the GS100 and MX5000 on the Panasonic.jp site. The numbers just don't make sense and you have to wonder why NTSC DV953 and MX5000 couldn't have a non vertical zoom like the MX500 (if its true).

May 15th, 2004, 11:39 AM	#4
Tommy Haupfear Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 1,415	That is correct Mikhail, but the odd part is that both cams are dealing with the same amount of pixels but for whatever reason the lower resolution NTSC MX5000 and DV953 have vertical zoom. Would be nice to "tweak" the firmware on a MX5000/DV953.

May 15th, 2004, 11:55 AM	#5
George Beck Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 244	and even GS100 have a vertical zoom. (even tho small one) is the GS100 Pal or NTSC?

May 15th, 2004, 12:08 PM	#6
Guy Bruner Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ashford, AL Posts: 937	GS100, MX5000...are all NTSC. Japan uses the same system as North America.

May 15th, 2004, 12:15 PM	#7
Guy Bruner Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ashford, AL Posts: 937	WRT the above mentioned slides. Take a look at THIS SLIDE It was posted on supervideo's website for a long time. I still have the .BMP version if anyone wants an original copy. Forgery??

May 15th, 2004, 12:40 PM	#8
Tommy Haupfear Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 1,415	Guy, I would have to say forgery since MX5000 and MX3000 are NTSC cams and the final anamorphically squeezed resolution should be 720x480 but that photo still references PAL's 720x576.

May 15th, 2004, 01:06 PM	#10
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Those slides talked about, are those the ones I have on my site? The ones I have on my site are of the PAL NV-MX500A and they are from Pana Technical.

May 15th, 2004, 02:10 PM	#11
George Beck Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 244	Frank, check the slide we talk about. Guy even posted direct link to it. here it is again: http://fortvir.net/modules.php?set_a...view_photo.php as you see it says MX5000 so probably it's not the yours you think of.

May 15th, 2004, 04:15 PM	#13
Tom E Young Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 130	Which model has best widescreen?

May 15th, 2004, 05:48 PM	#15
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Don't forget that the PDX10 is also black like the mamba.