GS400

Chris Szypulski · April 23rd, 2004, 10:56 AM

I am not going to get into argument. You need to study and read how things work before you post. DV is already compressed 5:1 and that is what is stored on tape. You do not lose anything transfering thru firewire. That is the point of firewire. Lossless transfer of data. By your claims I would lose quality when I transfer HD MPEG2 from PVR to my HD DVHS VCR. For your information I do not. I can make a 10th copy of 10th copy and I still get the same quality as original. This is the same when I copy Mini DV tape to another Mini DV tape. No loss in quality.

Also if you think that 24fps is good enough for fast motion than we have nothing to talk about. Do you know that they use split shutters in movie theaters to create 48fps. This is to eliminate flicker. Next time you go and see a movie just watch how blurry and stuttering any panning shots are.
Why do you think televison runs at 60Hz?. Becasue only then you can capture fast motion smoothly plus the higher the frame them more detail is captured.

Oh, Btw what Panasonic showed at NAB was a mockup. Nothing else. It is not a working camera and they said that the earliest it may be out is 2006. Here is the link to the story http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/panasonic-p2-flash-pro-04_18_04.htm

George Beck · April 23rd, 2004, 11:20 AM

Chris, if your frame is 1Mega and you transfer it trought a lossless transfer of data like FireWire as you said... why do you think you will get 720x480 image on the other end?
By the way, I never said anything about digital tape duplication, so I don't know why you are saying this.

Chris this is a consumer/prosumer oriented camcorder, if you want 60fps, large CCDs or 9.2 Megapix SloCam, and a price tag with lots of Zeroes in it, this is not it.

And 24p is good enough for me =)

have you heard of corporate strategy? why do you think the specs of GS400 are not released? why do you think those things are kept secret? why do you think someone will show a cam and give a date of it's release?
If you were their competitor you will be ready with a better product just before their release date and steal the market share under their noses. This is why 2006 is not a real date.
anyway...

we'll see GS400's full specs probably in less than a month.

Tavis Shaver · April 23rd, 2004, 01:44 PM

haha, yeah it'll be dry at first but i'd choke the hats down if it meant i got a palm sized 720p capable cam!!!!

George Beck · April 26th, 2004, 01:36 AM

3CCD x 1,070,000 pixels
(actually it turned out it's possible)

Kamal Tailor · April 26th, 2004, 10:24 AM

dagnabit, i wrote a big reply to post and it got lost in the net somewhere

oh well i'll try and remember it tomorrow and type it up again dang.

it basically explained why 60Hz was used and that PAl is better than NTSC and that i'm going to get GS400 regardless and in black, the black versions are only availible in Japan, for i know with the GS55 you can get red and blue, and black for the GS200 and i believe a white one in the GS120

oh yeah this is a link explaining interleaving, PAL and NTSC of sorts

http://www.hifi-writer.com/he/progscan/progscan.htm

Kamal Tailor · April 27th, 2004, 09:06 AM

this is what i can remember i wrote last night

Firstly Chris, no one is doubting your ability to copy Digital Data from one source to another with out any degradation. It is one of the Pro's of digital information. hence also why CD piracy is so viable, they can make millions of copies from one original.

Also from what i have read in numours articles about framerates, 24fps(or 25fps in the case of PAL) is more than sufficiant for the human brain. as there is not much noticable difference above that framerate. The 30fps was as i said b4 was based on the frequency of the power supply in the US(being 110V@60Hz). where as PAL was based on the 240V@50Hz. this was due to the frequency of power in the respective countries was a good way to make for cheap and easy Timing equipment in electronics at the time, b4 sofisticated semiconductors came in to use and pretty much allowed them to make any timings they wanted.

no one is also arguing that to capture high speed action on film you need high speed film and shutters to capture it, but also remember that they do slow it down so that it can be used in a movie whose framerate is 24fps. in my previous post there is a post explaining why NTSC needs progressive scan, and why in PAL it makes a negligable difference.

remember ppls that Video fps will never match the fps of computer games like quake etc. it's just not nessassery.

HD does mean different things in different countries for example in australia the Standard PAL resoultion is 576i (NTSC = 480i) this is known as SD TV over here in Australia. where as if you turn this into a Progressive signal, 576p, then this is considered a HD resolution over here in australia, there for it is possible that the GS400 will be able to record in a HD PAL resolution. also remember that the GS400's released will also be mostly PAL.

and i'm sure that Firewire will be entirely capable of transfering video feeds at HDPAL 576p.

and i'm sure due to the speculated specifications on the CCD Resolutions of the up and coming GS400 i'm sure it may even be able to output HDPAL 720p.

chris i hope i haven't offended you with my banter for all i know i may be entirely wrong. but i hope it lends you pause in future when saying something that may offend others with its lack of research and solid fact. even though you may be right.

back to the GS400 speculation, does anyone know what sort of remote the GS400 is coming out with?? will it have a more advanced remote/interview mic, allowing higher level menu functions???

i hope got most of what i said right anyway, someone please correct me if i'm wrong

George Beck · April 27th, 2004, 11:01 AM

here's another dealer:
http://www.dcam.ru/Panasonic-NV-GS400EG-S.html

please note that some of the info may be false.
like the LCD is not 2.5" but 3.5"
and dimentions are probably wrong...

but there's no other place to verify the:
1 Lux
PictBridge

the rest of the specs match.

Tommy Haupfear · April 27th, 2004, 11:42 AM

Quote:

please not that some of the info may be false.
like the LCD is not 2.5" but 3.5"

You've got to keep an eye on ol' Matsushita. The PV-DV852 (NTSC North America) had a 2.5" LCD while the equivalent NV-MX1000 (NTSC Japan) had a 3.5" LCD. Then just to make things interesting the NV-MX8 (PAL) had a 3.0" LCD but were all the same cam.

George Beck · April 27th, 2004, 11:56 AM

yeah...
at least the dimetions of the cam are inccorect on that russina dealer... (looks like they are of GS200), and GS400 is larger for sure.

the models so far I found are:
GS400EG
GS400GC and GS400GC-S
GS400A
GS400B
GS400
(most of those were NV- as far as I remember)

and the Jap model will probably be GS400K

some more signs of GS400....
http://www.panasonic.be/servlet/PB/menu/1050385_l3/

George Beck · April 28th, 2004, 04:52 PM

it's 12X Zoom ! not 10x
(sorry that was a typo, but I can't edit it out =/ )

Kamal Tailor · April 29th, 2004, 09:38 AM

ummmm i don't know if anyone has seen this, and i'm assuming most of you have, but holy crap!

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...o-04_18_04.htm

George Beck · April 29th, 2004, 09:50 AM

yep... seen it..

actually I hope some of that tech to be in GS400
(for 720 recording)

Tho I think the release date of the cam is totaly overstated to throw off the competition.

Tommy Haupfear · April 29th, 2004, 09:59 AM

George, I just hope you're not too disappointed with the GS400 since its probably not going to have what you're looking for. Will you still buy one if it doesn't have a dirty HD mode?

BTW, what 720p TV are using?

George Beck · April 29th, 2004, 11:40 AM

Actually GS400 has all what I'm looking for =)
(from the officialy posted specs)

and HD720 is not something I "need and looking for", but it came as a conclusion of disection of pana's posted specs, policy, and line of producst (existing as well as expected).

and it will be nice to have your memories in 720 no matter the TV you have at the moment.. CRT, LCD, LCoS.. DVL... 1080.. 720 projector.. =)
isn't it what's all about?
...better preserving memories

in this case 1080i will be better, but not available yet as you know... maybe next year ;)

Tommy Haupfear · April 29th, 2004, 12:46 PM

Quote:

in this case 1080i will be better, but not available yet as you know... maybe next year ;)

Not sure I follow you.. ??

April 26th, 2004, 01:36 AM	#19
George Beck Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 244	- 3CCD x 1,070,000 pixels (actually it turned out it's possible)

April 23rd, 2004, 10:56 AM	#16
Chris Szypulski New Boot Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 8	I am not going to get into argument. You need to study and read how things work before you post. DV is already compressed 5:1 and that is what is stored on tape. You do not lose anything transfering thru firewire. That is the point of firewire. Lossless transfer of data. By your claims I would lose quality when I transfer HD MPEG2 from PVR to my HD DVHS VCR. For your information I do not. I can make a 10th copy of 10th copy and I still get the same quality as original. This is the same when I copy Mini DV tape to another Mini DV tape. No loss in quality. Also if you think that 24fps is good enough for fast motion than we have nothing to talk about. Do you know that they use split shutters in movie theaters to create 48fps. This is to eliminate flicker. Next time you go and see a movie just watch how blurry and stuttering any panning shots are. Why do you think televison runs at 60Hz?. Becasue only then you can capture fast motion smoothly plus the higher the frame them more detail is captured. Oh, Btw what Panasonic showed at NAB was a mockup. Nothing else. It is not a working camera and they said that the earliest it may be out is 2006. Here is the link to the story http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/panasonic-p2-flash-pro-04_18_04.htm

April 23rd, 2004, 11:20 AM	#17
George Beck Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 244	Chris, if your frame is 1Mega and you transfer it trought a lossless transfer of data like FireWire as you said... why do you think you will get 720x480 image on the other end? By the way, I never said anything about digital tape duplication, so I don't know why you are saying this. Chris this is a consumer/prosumer oriented camcorder, if you want 60fps, large CCDs or 9.2 Megapix SloCam, and a price tag with lots of Zeroes in it, this is not it. And 24p is good enough for me =) have you heard of corporate strategy? why do you think the specs of GS400 are not released? why do you think those things are kept secret? why do you think someone will show a cam and give a date of it's release? If you were their competitor you will be ready with a better product just before their release date and steal the market share under their noses. This is why 2006 is not a real date. anyway... we'll see GS400's full specs probably in less than a month.

April 23rd, 2004, 01:44 PM	#18
Tavis Shaver Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC. Canada Posts: 209	haha, yeah it'll be dry at first but i'd choke the hats down if it meant i got a palm sized 720p capable cam!!!!

April 26th, 2004, 10:24 AM	#20
Kamal Tailor Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Australia, Victoria, Melbourne Posts: 65	dagnabit, i wrote a big reply to post and it got lost in the net somewhere oh well i'll try and remember it tomorrow and type it up again dang. it basically explained why 60Hz was used and that PAl is better than NTSC and that i'm going to get GS400 regardless and in black, the black versions are only availible in Japan, for i know with the GS55 you can get red and blue, and black for the GS200 and i believe a white one in the GS120 oh yeah this is a link explaining interleaving, PAL and NTSC of sorts http://www.hifi-writer.com/he/progscan/progscan.htm

April 27th, 2004, 09:06 AM	#21
Kamal Tailor Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Australia, Victoria, Melbourne Posts: 65	this is what i can remember i wrote last night Firstly Chris, no one is doubting your ability to copy Digital Data from one source to another with out any degradation. It is one of the Pro's of digital information. hence also why CD piracy is so viable, they can make millions of copies from one original. Also from what i have read in numours articles about framerates, 24fps(or 25fps in the case of PAL) is more than sufficiant for the human brain. as there is not much noticable difference above that framerate. The 30fps was as i said b4 was based on the frequency of the power supply in the US(being 110V@60Hz). where as PAL was based on the 240V@50Hz. this was due to the frequency of power in the respective countries was a good way to make for cheap and easy Timing equipment in electronics at the time, b4 sofisticated semiconductors came in to use and pretty much allowed them to make any timings they wanted. no one is also arguing that to capture high speed action on film you need high speed film and shutters to capture it, but also remember that they do slow it down so that it can be used in a movie whose framerate is 24fps. in my previous post there is a post explaining why NTSC needs progressive scan, and why in PAL it makes a negligable difference. remember ppls that Video fps will never match the fps of computer games like quake etc. it's just not nessassery. HD does mean different things in different countries for example in australia the Standard PAL resoultion is 576i (NTSC = 480i) this is known as SD TV over here in Australia. where as if you turn this into a Progressive signal, 576p, then this is considered a HD resolution over here in australia, there for it is possible that the GS400 will be able to record in a HD PAL resolution. also remember that the GS400's released will also be mostly PAL. and i'm sure that Firewire will be entirely capable of transfering video feeds at HDPAL 576p. and i'm sure due to the speculated specifications on the CCD Resolutions of the up and coming GS400 i'm sure it may even be able to output HDPAL 720p. chris i hope i haven't offended you with my banter for all i know i may be entirely wrong. but i hope it lends you pause in future when saying something that may offend others with its lack of research and solid fact. even though you may be right. back to the GS400 speculation, does anyone know what sort of remote the GS400 is coming out with?? will it have a more advanced remote/interview mic, allowing higher level menu functions??? i hope got most of what i said right anyway, someone please correct me if i'm wrong

April 27th, 2004, 11:01 AM	#22
George Beck Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 244	here's another dealer: http://www.dcam.ru/Panasonic-NV-GS400EG-S.html please note that some of the info may be false. like the LCD is not 2.5" but 3.5" and dimentions are probably wrong... but there's no other place to verify the: 1 Lux PictBridge the rest of the specs match.

April 27th, 2004, 11:56 AM	#24
George Beck Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 244	yeah... at least the dimetions of the cam are inccorect on that russina dealer... (looks like they are of GS200), and GS400 is larger for sure. the models so far I found are: GS400EG GS400GC and GS400GC-S GS400A GS400B GS400 (most of those were NV- as far as I remember) and the Jap model will probably be GS400K some more signs of GS400.... http://www.panasonic.be/servlet/PB/menu/1050385_l3/

April 28th, 2004, 04:52 PM	#25
George Beck Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 244	it's 12X Zoom ! not 10x (sorry that was a typo, but I can't edit it out =/ )

April 29th, 2004, 09:38 AM	#26
Kamal Tailor Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Australia, Victoria, Melbourne Posts: 65	ummmm i don't know if anyone has seen this, and i'm assuming most of you have, but holy crap! http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...o-04_18_04.htm

April 29th, 2004, 09:50 AM	#27
George Beck Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 244	yep... seen it.. actually I hope some of that tech to be in GS400 (for 720 recording) Tho I think the release date of the cam is totaly overstated to throw off the competition.

April 29th, 2004, 09:59 AM	#28
Tommy Haupfear Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 1,415	George, I just hope you're not too disappointed with the GS400 since its probably not going to have what you're looking for. Will you still buy one if it doesn't have a dirty HD mode? BTW, what 720p TV are using?

April 29th, 2004, 11:40 AM	#29
George Beck Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 244	Actually GS400 has all what I'm looking for =) (from the officialy posted specs) and HD720 is not something I "need and looking for", but it came as a conclusion of disection of pana's posted specs, policy, and line of producst (existing as well as expected). and it will be nice to have your memories in 720 no matter the TV you have at the moment.. CRT, LCD, LCoS.. DVL... 1080.. 720 projector.. =) isn't it what's all about? ...better preserving memories in this case 1080i will be better, but not available yet as you know... maybe next year ;)