frame vs progressive vs normal at DVinfo.net

Justin Boyle · January 12th, 2004, 04:08 AM

I have finally decided to do a comparison and am in the process of uploading the pictures onto my website. now these pictures are in different modes and were grabbed straight off the footage with no adjustments to any. if there are any questions feel free to ask. I think this will be a help to many as there has been some questions about the difference in the grabs. frame mode looks a little like a slow shutter speed compared to the others as it is running at 25 rather than 50(remember i'm in australia PAL) I don't personally like it but have not look at normal footage of this on a tv so will try that some time. other than that i can't see much difference.
http://www.geocities.com/sniper_y2k2000/mx-500.html
hope that works for you all

all these photos were taken with an mx500(953) The colors on this camera are great as is the resolution.

John Gaspain · January 12th, 2004, 06:00 AM

interesting, I cant tell the difference!

Oh and what is this "Progressive" mode? my 953 doesnt have that.

Guy Bruner · January 12th, 2004, 07:50 AM

Progressive is for stills recorded to tape. Yes, you do have it. it is a menu option which is unnecessary in frame mode. This is the normal mode when stills are recorded to SD card.

Tommy Haupfear · January 12th, 2004, 08:31 AM

I'm confused about these frame grabs as they look more like photo stills recorded to tape or SD memory. The resolution of a PAL video frame, I thought, should be 720x576 (720x480 NTSC). I know the progressive photo you posted has to be a still as the only video that can be recorded to tape is interlaced and frame mode. A big difference in frame mode and interlaced is with a moving subject.

The link below is an example of what an interlaced NTSC video frame (720x480) looks like with a fast moving subject. In this case a spinning bike wheel. Frame grabs credits go to Rob Hester.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-...interlaced.jpg

This is what the same spinning bike wheel would look like with frame mode or progressive scan

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-.../framemode.jpg

Can you explain the process of how you obtained and captured these frames/stills and what (if any) post processing was performed?

Thanks

Brandt Wilson · January 12th, 2004, 01:57 PM

Tommy,

Does this camera have a function similar to the PDX10 in which you can use a PC to capture high resolution progressive video while in still mode?

Tommy Haupfear · January 12th, 2004, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Does this camera have a function similar to the PDX10 in which you can use a PC to capture high resolution progressive video while in still mode?

I haven't tried that trick on the DV953 or GS100 but it was rather disappointing on my PDX10 as it was similar to the JVC GR-DV3000U in that it gave a pseudo progressive scan/frame mode look (and increased viewing area) but softened the picture very noticeably. Below are two frames I pulled directly from firewire (bypassing tape) and saved as JPG from my past PDX10.

Video frame

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-...0mobovideo.JPG

Still mode video frame

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-...mobomemory.JPG

Guy Bruner · January 12th, 2004, 06:50 PM

You can capture directly to hard drive through the Firewire port, but the capture is 720x480. The mode is whatever you select...normal or frame. There is no way to capture high resolution stills except to the SD card.

Justin Boyle · January 12th, 2004, 07:02 PM

All the photos were frame grabs straight off the tape done through premiere. The camera was set up on a tripod to take exactly the same picture and the only thing that was changed was the mode on the camera. the camera does video in progressive mode. I think that the idea behind it being used for better still capture is so that if you want to take a still off the tape then it is sharper and doesn't have the interlaced look. I think that the difference for video in normal vs progressive is less noticeable because when the image is changing you cant see the jagged lines from the interlaced mode. None of the photos had special processing just straight grabs off the tape. I will try to get some video which shows the difference a little more

Justin

Tommy Haupfear · January 12th, 2004, 08:50 PM

Quote:

the camera does video in progressive mode

Progressive Photoshot (p. 25 in the manual) is only for stills that can be stored on tape or SD card. The only two options for video to tape is interlaced or frame mode.

Below are two quick frames this evening using my R/C car with the back wheels set in motion. You'll notice that they are 720x480 resolution and have been highly compressed (JPG) for Internet use.

4:3 Interlaced MWB 1/250 shutter

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-...Interlaced.jpg

4:3 Frame Mode MWB 1/250 shutter

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-...0FrameMode.jpg

Looking forward to your video samples with the progressive photoshot omitted.

January 12th, 2004, 04:08 AM	#1
Justin Boyle Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 207	frame vs progressive vs normal I have finally decided to do a comparison and am in the process of uploading the pictures onto my website. now these pictures are in different modes and were grabbed straight off the footage with no adjustments to any. if there are any questions feel free to ask. I think this will be a help to many as there has been some questions about the difference in the grabs. frame mode looks a little like a slow shutter speed compared to the others as it is running at 25 rather than 50(remember i'm in australia PAL) I don't personally like it but have not look at normal footage of this on a tv so will try that some time. other than that i can't see much difference. http://www.geocities.com/sniper_y2k2000/mx-500.html hope that works for you all all these photos were taken with an mx500(953) The colors on this camera are great as is the resolution. __________________ jlboyle

January 12th, 2004, 06:00 AM	#2
John Gaspain Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: WA-USA Posts: 371	interesting, I cant tell the difference! Oh and what is this "Progressive" mode? my 953 doesnt have that. __________________ The glory of the World passes by.

January 12th, 2004, 07:02 PM	#8
Justin Boyle Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 207	All the photos were frame grabs straight off the tape done through premiere. The camera was set up on a tripod to take exactly the same picture and the only thing that was changed was the mode on the camera. the camera does video in progressive mode. I think that the idea behind it being used for better still capture is so that if you want to take a still off the tape then it is sharper and doesn't have the interlaced look. I think that the difference for video in normal vs progressive is less noticeable because when the image is changing you cant see the jagged lines from the interlaced mode. None of the photos had special processing just straight grabs off the tape. I will try to get some video which shows the difference a little more Justin __________________ jlboyle

January 12th, 2004, 07:50 AM	#3
Guy Bruner Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ashford, AL Posts: 937	Progressive is for stills recorded to tape. Yes, you do have it. it is a menu option which is unnecessary in frame mode. This is the normal mode when stills are recorded to SD card.

January 12th, 2004, 08:31 AM	#4
Tommy Haupfear Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 1,415	I'm confused about these frame grabs as they look more like photo stills recorded to tape or SD memory. The resolution of a PAL video frame, I thought, should be 720x576 (720x480 NTSC). I know the progressive photo you posted has to be a still as the only video that can be recorded to tape is interlaced and frame mode. A big difference in frame mode and interlaced is with a moving subject. The link below is an example of what an interlaced NTSC video frame (720x480) looks like with a fast moving subject. In this case a spinning bike wheel. Frame grabs credits go to Rob Hester. http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-...interlaced.jpg This is what the same spinning bike wheel would look like with frame mode or progressive scan http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-.../framemode.jpg Can you explain the process of how you obtained and captured these frames/stills and what (if any) post processing was performed? Thanks

January 12th, 2004, 01:57 PM	#5
Brandt Wilson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 220	Tommy, Does this camera have a function similar to the PDX10 in which you can use a PC to capture high resolution progressive video while in still mode?

January 12th, 2004, 06:50 PM	#7
Guy Bruner Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ashford, AL Posts: 937	You can capture directly to hard drive through the Firewire port, but the capture is 720x480. The mode is whatever you select...normal or frame. There is no way to capture high resolution stills except to the SD card.