Which mic is better... at DVinfo.net

Frank Granovski · January 9th, 2004, 08:21 PM

Which mic is better for the MX3/MX5?
[list=1][*]Apex 191[*]Pana's stereo zoom mic[*]Sony's MS908 stereo[*]or, ???[/list=1]

Michael Wisniewski · January 9th, 2004, 10:07 PM

I don't know which one is better, but if you're looking at the MS908, also check-out the MS907. I was playing with both at B&H Photo - the MS908 has a very short wire, couldn't use it for an interview.

The MS907 has a longer cable that can be useful if you decide to hand hold it for an interview.

Frank Granovski · January 10th, 2004, 02:14 AM

Is the MS907 also a stereo mic? Or is it the same mic with a longer cable?

Michael Wisniewski · January 10th, 2004, 03:20 AM

It's basically the same stereo mic with a longer cable. Here are the features that are different, otherwise it's the same mic ... I have no clue how to read these specs though to know how significant the differences are:

MS907
Dynamic Range (Typical) 81dB
Signal to Noise Ratio 65 dB
Max Input Sound Level (SPL) 110 dB, (@ 1 kHz, 1% THD)
Attached Cable: 5' (1.5m)

MS908C
Dynamic Range (Typical) 86 dB
Signal to Noise Ratio 87 dB
Max Input Sound Level (SPL) 111 dB, (@ 1 kHz, 1% THD)
Attached Cable: 5" (127mm)

Bryan Beasleigh · January 10th, 2004, 05:12 PM

All a longer cable in an unbalanced mic will do is give you more chance for interference.

It is really doubtfull that you will get a decent stereo mic for around $100

So far as the specs detailed, they really don't say much except it's a very inexpensive mic. At this price youi listen to the mic.

Mics have different characteristics for different types of use. Some mics are very brite but accurate, voice mics are tuned with a little lift to make us sound better. there is no one mic that will do everything so either buy multiple mics or decide the traits that are most important.

For the money the Apex is the best all around mic for the price.

What is your on camera mic good for in your opinion?

Here is some reading to help you decide and understand more about what you are upo against.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1995...crophones.html

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage...tml#link%20two

http://www.equipmentemporium.com/

This is pretty good in explaining the different types of microphone.
http://www.schoeps.de/E/overview-mic-types.html#shotgun

Frank Granovski · January 10th, 2004, 06:18 PM

Thanks, Bryan. I go read those links.

Quote:

What is your on camera mic good for in your opinion?

Say I'm shooting a picnic. The sounds seem very rich and natural, from the "clinging" of spoons being placed on the table, plates, the wind rustling the tree leaves and the leaves of the bushes, the fire crackling, the nearby waves from the ocean rolling onto the sandy shore and subtle dialog in-between.

Frank Granovski · January 10th, 2004, 06:38 PM

So..., in your opinion, Bryan, you feel that the Apex 191 is a much better mic than the Azden 990, considering they cost about the same at B&H?

Regarding the Apex 191 (that's the one you mean, right?), is it a cardioid mic? Or hyper/super, meaning slightly more directional?

Apex 191 info (can't find B&H link)

Azden 990 info:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ku=3646&is=REG
http://www.azden.com/shotgun.html#ecz-990

-------------------------------------------
The GS100, Pana's unprotrusive pokercam - tomorrow's technology today.

Bryan Beasleigh · January 10th, 2004, 09:43 PM

The mic you want for your picnic ambience is an omni. To zoom into the picnic and record localized audio would be a hypercardoid. They even have several different types of omni. One has a bright mid and high freq range to be used at a distance from the source, One has a fairly flat response , which is normallyused close. There is a mic called a reference mic which has a tiny diaphram but is super accurate for ambience. I've never used one of those , but only read about them.

http://www.sdaaudio.ca/tt-3m.html
http://www.sdaaudio.ca/kp-6m.html

The hypercard will not colour the off axis as a shotgun might. you'll still get some ambience.

Now maybe you'll understand why I keep spending more money on mics. (Apart from a compulsive digital video disorder).

I'll keep looking, somewhere out there is a mic with the name Granovski written all over it.

Frank Granovski · January 10th, 2004, 10:25 PM

Thanks. But I've decided on a good stereo zoom mike, if there even is such a thing (maybe), or a cardioid which is halfway toward a hyper/super.

What type of mic is the Apex 191 again?

-------------------------------------------
The GS100 - the black one, please.

Frank Granovski · January 11th, 2004, 06:37 AM

Here's a B&H list of Stereo mics:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...rch&Q=&ci=1458

Here's a B&H list of "shootgun" mics:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...rch&Q=&ci=1456

Bryan Beasleigh · January 11th, 2004, 02:14 PM

There is a trade off. What you're willing to spend vs what you want the mic to do. No one mic can do everything. For anyone to go through that list from B&H would require a small book.

Read Jay's article on patterns, it may shed more light.

http://www.dv.com/columns/columns_it.../2003/rose0203

Frank Granovski · January 13th, 2004, 06:11 AM

Bryan, that TT-3M Reference Microphone price costs $1460.00 Canadian. That's over a US "G-note."

Bryan Beasleigh · January 13th, 2004, 12:45 PM

The TT-3M reference mic is expensive, the other one is more reasonable but my point wasn't to say that you shoulkd buy one. You spoke of ambient sounds, I was simply giving an example of another type of mic and also to show that mics don't have to have a huge diaphram to work and sound well. The $1400 mic doesn't sound 4 times better than the $350 reference mic. Although it costs that much more it may only be 10% better.

How do you think i found that little apex? I was testing mics of all price ranges and the salesguy passed that one to me. I listened and said, the voice is nice but it doesn't have the top end anything like the others. It was a $99 mic being compared to $300 to$800 mics and it didn't come out that badly. It actually did a better job on voice than some of the bib ones.

My point is that you can spend $1500- $2000 on a mic and not find one that will do everything.

Bottom line (my opinion) the stereo zooms are crap. Buy a mono in a pattern that will fufill your greatest need.

Bryan Beasleigh · January 13th, 2004, 12:50 PM

Re: the list of mics at B&H
That's all of the mics that B&H have in those catagories. Firstly many are out of yours and my budget.

Mics that require phantom and preamplification will add to the overall cost of an audio setup. There are compromises all the way up the ladder.

Frank Granovski · January 13th, 2004, 06:20 PM

Byran, the Apex 191 is $110 Canadian. The mic is a cardioid, halfway between cardioid and hyper-cardioid. I guess I'll need to buy a hotshoe clamp for it. I also noticed they sell quite a few Apex models---I think maybe you where on to something with finding this line at that music shop.

Quote:

Bottom line (my opinion) the stereo zooms are crap

But I want zoom-stereo! D_mn it! :-))

January 9th, 2004, 08:21 PM	#1
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Which mic is better... Which mic is better for the MX3/MX5? [list=1][]Apex 191[]Pana's stereo zoom mic[]Sony's MS908 stereo[]or, ???[/list=1]

January 9th, 2004, 10:07 PM	#2
Michael Wisniewski Wrangler Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Makati, Metro Manila Posts: 2,706 Images: 32	I don't know which one is better, but if you're looking at the MS908, also check-out the MS907. I was playing with both at B&H Photo - the MS908 has a very short wire, couldn't use it for an interview. The MS907 has a longer cable that can be useful if you decide to hand hold it for an interview.

January 10th, 2004, 02:14 AM	#3
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Is the MS907 also a stereo mic? Or is it the same mic with a longer cable?

January 10th, 2004, 03:20 AM	#4
Michael Wisniewski Wrangler Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Makati, Metro Manila Posts: 2,706 Images: 32	It's basically the same stereo mic with a longer cable. Here are the features that are different, otherwise it's the same mic ... I have no clue how to read these specs though to know how significant the differences are: MS907 Dynamic Range (Typical) 81dB Signal to Noise Ratio 65 dB Max Input Sound Level (SPL) 110 dB, (@ 1 kHz, 1% THD) Attached Cable: 5' (1.5m) MS908C Dynamic Range (Typical) 86 dB Signal to Noise Ratio 87 dB Max Input Sound Level (SPL) 111 dB, (@ 1 kHz, 1% THD) Attached Cable: 5" (127mm)

January 10th, 2004, 05:12 PM	#5
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	All a longer cable in an unbalanced mic will do is give you more chance for interference. It is really doubtfull that you will get a decent stereo mic for around $100 So far as the specs detailed, they really don't say much except it's a very inexpensive mic. At this price youi listen to the mic. Mics have different characteristics for different types of use. Some mics are very brite but accurate, voice mics are tuned with a little lift to make us sound better. there is no one mic that will do everything so either buy multiple mics or decide the traits that are most important. For the money the Apex is the best all around mic for the price. What is your on camera mic good for in your opinion? Here is some reading to help you decide and understand more about what you are upo against. http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1995...crophones.html http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage...tml#link%20two http://www.equipmentemporium.com/ This is pretty good in explaining the different types of microphone. http://www.schoeps.de/E/overview-mic-types.html#shotgun

January 10th, 2004, 06:38 PM	#7
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	So..., in your opinion, Bryan, you feel that the Apex 191 is a much better mic than the Azden 990, considering they cost about the same at B&H? Regarding the Apex 191 (that's the one you mean, right?), is it a cardioid mic? Or hyper/super, meaning slightly more directional? Apex 191 info (can't find B&H link) Azden 990 info: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ku=3646&is=REG http://www.azden.com/shotgun.html#ecz-990 ------------------------------------------- The GS100, Pana's unprotrusive pokercam - tomorrow's technology today.

January 10th, 2004, 09:43 PM	#8
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	The mic you want for your picnic ambience is an omni. To zoom into the picnic and record localized audio would be a hypercardoid. They even have several different types of omni. One has a bright mid and high freq range to be used at a distance from the source, One has a fairly flat response , which is normallyused close. There is a mic called a reference mic which has a tiny diaphram but is super accurate for ambience. I've never used one of those , but only read about them. http://www.sdaaudio.ca/tt-3m.html http://www.sdaaudio.ca/kp-6m.html The hypercard will not colour the off axis as a shotgun might. you'll still get some ambience. Now maybe you'll understand why I keep spending more money on mics. (Apart from a compulsive digital video disorder). I'll keep looking, somewhere out there is a mic with the name Granovski written all over it.

January 10th, 2004, 10:25 PM	#9
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Thanks. But I've decided on a good stereo zoom mike, if there even is such a thing (maybe), or a cardioid which is halfway toward a hyper/super. What type of mic is the Apex 191 again? ------------------------------------------- The GS100 - the black one, please.

January 11th, 2004, 06:37 AM	#10
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Here's a B&H list of Stereo mics: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...rch&Q=&ci=1458 Here's a B&H list of "shootgun" mics: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...rch&Q=&ci=1456

January 11th, 2004, 02:14 PM	#11
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	There is a trade off. What you're willing to spend vs what you want the mic to do. No one mic can do everything. For anyone to go through that list from B&H would require a small book. Read Jay's article on patterns, it may shed more light. http://www.dv.com/columns/columns_it.../2003/rose0203

January 13th, 2004, 06:11 AM	#12
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Bryan, that TT-3M Reference Microphone price costs $1460.00 Canadian. That's over a US "G-note."

January 13th, 2004, 12:45 PM	#13
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	The TT-3M reference mic is expensive, the other one is more reasonable but my point wasn't to say that you shoulkd buy one. You spoke of ambient sounds, I was simply giving an example of another type of mic and also to show that mics don't have to have a huge diaphram to work and sound well. The $1400 mic doesn't sound 4 times better than the $350 reference mic. Although it costs that much more it may only be 10% better. How do you think i found that little apex? I was testing mics of all price ranges and the salesguy passed that one to me. I listened and said, the voice is nice but it doesn't have the top end anything like the others. It was a $99 mic being compared to $300 to$800 mics and it didn't come out that badly. It actually did a better job on voice than some of the bib ones. My point is that you can spend $1500- $2000 on a mic and not find one that will do everything. Bottom line (my opinion) the stereo zooms are crap. Buy a mono in a pattern that will fufill your greatest need.

January 13th, 2004, 12:50 PM	#14
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	Re: the list of mics at B&H That's all of the mics that B&H have in those catagories. Firstly many are out of yours and my budget. Mics that require phantom and preamplification will add to the overall cost of an audio setup. There are compromises all the way up the ladder.