Advanced adjust in Pana cameras

Frank Granovski · November 28th, 2003, 04:58 PM

Carlos, feel free to post whatever you think is important or what you want to share with us. It's not just a few members reading this but also many visitors who drop in 24 hours a day from all corners of the globe. If someone disagrees with you, don't sweat it. I've learned to just accept posts as they come, as long as no one comes in with personal attacks. And we have people posting from all levels of knowledge, which makes things interesting.

November 28th, 2003, 05:37 PM

Carlos,

What I said was in no way a slam I wanted to know was in the immortal words of Bugs Bunny "What's Up Doc?"

As to a camera are you ready to buy or are you playing the field.

As to your answer that Video is limited I would have to disagree as the sky is the limit as to the software you could use, the machines that can do the heavy duty work, and the cameras with their features man this is what I have been waiting for. Film is good, film is great, and film looks the best. BUT it also costs more money and the cost of DV wins in the long run.

Fred Garhart · November 28th, 2003, 07:39 PM

I think you should by a Panasonic PV-DV953 because it is a really good camcorder and does not cost much at B+H in New York. It is real strong and has many settings but I am sure there are more professional camcorders you can buy that are bigger and costs much more money like Tom's DVC200 black professional Panasonic. $8000.00 is is a lot of money. I am talking to you Carlos so what do you think?

Frank Granovski · November 28th, 2003, 08:26 PM

I agree, Fred, but consider what Carlos intends to do with a miniDV cam. He's hesitant and attempting to choose the best one because he's not sure if he will get 35mm motion film results he expects from a miniDV cam (such as the PV-DV953). That's why I steered him towards reading that article by John Jackman.

November 28th, 2003, 08:39 PM

For a MiniDV how about the GL1 PAL as it has a better film look? :-)

Fred Garhart · November 29th, 2003, 11:59 AM

I know PAL is Europe TV system. Is it true PAL has better film look? Are PAL professional Panasonic camcorders better because of better Europe film look? Is PAL better for filming more movies like Carlos wants to do in Brazil?

November 29th, 2003, 12:31 PM

I believe this link will explain it better and do note the equipment they used....

http://www.dv.com/features/features_...ristiansen0503

Carlos E. Martinez · November 30th, 2003, 08:51 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Granovski : feel free to post whatever you think is important or what you want to share with us. It's not just a few members reading this but also many visitors who drop in 24 hours a day from all corners of the globe. If someone disagrees with you, don't sweat it. I've learned to just accept posts as they come, as long as no one comes in with personal attacks. And we have people posting from all levels of knowledge, which makes things interesting. -->>>

Of course it's not problem with people disagreeing with me. The only catch is that they at least understand what they are diagreeing with.

Personal attacks I usually disregard too, and I don't think I ever attacked back on any Forum. If possible I try to go deeper in my ideas to help get them through.

This time I got impatient because I didn't seem to get anywhere. The whole focus on my quest, which was seeing how far I could get with a DV953 went blurry with issues that should have taken a more constructive direction, instead of becoming a chasing tail exercise.

Carlos

Carlos E. Martinez · November 30th, 2003, 09:14 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Tom Neumann :
What I said was in no way a slam I wanted to know was in the immortal words of Bugs Bunny "What's Up Doc?"-->>>

I'm quite a fan of BB, but I seemed to miss the joke. Sorry.

<<<-- As to a camera are you ready to buy or are you playing the field.-->>>

Not too sure yet. If I do not get a way to see an actual DV953 test on a DV tape, I may go for a DVC80 first. If the DVC30 was released soon I'd go for it, but I wonder if it won't have the smear problems the PDX10 has on its 1/4" CCDs.

<<<-- As to your answer that Video is limited I would have to disagree as the sky is the limit as to the software you could use, the machines that can do the heavy duty work, and the cameras with their features man this is what I have been waiting for. Film is good, film is great, and film looks the best. BUT it also costs more money and the cost of DV wins in the long run. -->>>

A lower cost is the biggest problem for more people doing their thing. That is the real revolution and I am totally for it.

I don't think you can do too much in post to help the capturing limitations cameras have. If you don't get during the shot it's lost forever. Gamma response becomes the defining factor. So the issue of film being much superior for shooting, not editing, still prevails. But that doesn't really matter.

Low budget productions have to be shot in video. Particularly interviews for documentaries. First the XL1, then the PD150 and now the DVX100 have been the protagonists of that revolution.

My quest has been to find out if we could take that even farther with a camera that was so low budget that would allow a lot more people doing projects that could be accepted, either by broadcast channels or for film blow-up. That's all. Nothing less, nothing more.

The other things I talked about during these discussions were general video questions, which in the DV953 become more critical, like low light response.

Low light response is not a question related to ... low light response. It's a gamma question really. If the camera can not resolve dark areas, how much is the low knee compromised even in normal light situations?

When I talked about a light meter entering this matter, was just as a matter of reference. A way for a DV953 owner to research on their own cameras, something that would help understand better how things worked in video. We can find a different reference that is not so disturbing.

Carlos

Carlos E. Martinez · November 30th, 2003, 09:23 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Fred Garhart : I think you should by a Panasonic PV-DV953 because it is a really good camcorder and does not cost much at B+H in New York. It is real strong and has many settings but I am sure there are more professional camcorders you can buy that are bigger and costs much more money like Tom's DVC200 black professional Panasonic. $8000.00 is is a lot of money. I am talking to you Carlos so what do you think? -->>>

In fact, if I went for a 1/6" CCD camera I'd go for a GS100. That model would let me investigate its "wide" options and see if it could be applied to improve the image quality.

The DVC200 has just one appeal for me: its 1/2" CCDs. For the rest the Sony DSR250 is much better and also much cheaper.

But recently the Panasonyc DVX100 is blowing everything out of the water with its internal settings. Now we have to wait and see if Canon comes forward with a better product. They do not seem too in a hurry.

Carlos

Carlos E. Martinez · November 30th, 2003, 09:26 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Granovski : I agree, Fred, but consider what Carlos intends to do with a miniDV cam. He's hesitant and attempting to choose the best one because he's not sure if he will get 35mm motion film results he expects from a miniDV cam (such as the PV-DV953). That's why I steered him towards reading that article by John Jackman. -->>>

I am not hesitant towards mini-DV, but towards the DV953/GS100 to see if they can make it.

Of course I was familiar with Jackman's article, but it doesn't really answers my questions.

Carlos

Carlos E. Martinez · November 30th, 2003, 09:29 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Tom Neumann : For a MiniDV how about the GL1 PAL as it has a better film look? :-) -->>>

You mean GL2 I think. A PAL GL2 (XL2 I think it is) might be an option.

The problem is that I had a very bad first experience with a GL1 camera, probably because of dirty heads or improper DV tape, which left insecure with Canons and DV too.

Whether go for NTSC and PAL right away has other repercussions on my business here, which are not really questions to discuss here. If you want to hear about them, then e-mail me.

Carlos

Chris Hurd · November 30th, 2003, 10:05 AM

Hi Carlos,

<< Whether go for NTSC and PAL right away has other repercussions on my business here, which are not really questions to discuss here. If you want to hear about them, then e-mail me. >>

Actually, this subject would be appropriate here and I'd like to learn more about your experiences. We have a different forum called "Taking Care of Business" where business matters are discussed. I appreciate your background and experience, and I think we would all benefit from hearing about some of the things you've been through in the business. Many thanks,

Carlos E. Martinez · December 1st, 2003, 08:43 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Chris Hurd : Hi Carlos,

<< Whether go for NTSC and PAL right away has other repercussions on my business here, which are not really questions to discuss here. If you want to hear about them, then e-mail me. >>

Actually, this subject would be appropriate here and I'd like to learn more about your experiences. We have a different forum called "Taking Care of Business" where business matters are discussed. I appreciate your background and experience, and I think we would all benefit from hearing about some of the things you've been through in the business. Many thanks, -->>>

Of course if would be absolutely appropiate to discuss that matter on another section. And I would be willing to discuss it.

Can you move just these last two mails and start there for that subject?

Carlos

Frank Granovski · December 1st, 2003, 03:33 PM

If you wish, Carlos, start a new thread on the other forum, and I'll copy or move your last 2 posts to there.

November 30th, 2003, 10:05 AM	#58
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Hi Carlos, << Whether go for NTSC and PAL right away has other repercussions on my business here, which are not really questions to discuss here. If you want to hear about them, then e-mail me. >> Actually, this subject would be appropriate here and I'd like to learn more about your experiences. We have a different forum called "Taking Care of Business" where business matters are discussed. I appreciate your background and experience, and I think we would all benefit from hearing about some of the things you've been through in the business. Many thanks, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

November 28th, 2003, 04:58 PM	#46
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Carlos, feel free to post whatever you think is important or what you want to share with us. It's not just a few members reading this but also many visitors who drop in 24 hours a day from all corners of the globe. If someone disagrees with you, don't sweat it. I've learned to just accept posts as they come, as long as no one comes in with personal attacks. And we have people posting from all levels of knowledge, which makes things interesting.

November 28th, 2003, 05:37 PM	#47
Guest Posts: n/a	Carlos, What I said was in no way a slam I wanted to know was in the immortal words of Bugs Bunny "What's Up Doc?" As to a camera are you ready to buy or are you playing the field. As to your answer that Video is limited I would have to disagree as the sky is the limit as to the software you could use, the machines that can do the heavy duty work, and the cameras with their features man this is what I have been waiting for. Film is good, film is great, and film looks the best. BUT it also costs more money and the cost of DV wins in the long run.

November 28th, 2003, 07:39 PM	#48
Fred Garhart Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Calgary, Alberta Posts: 53	I think you should by a Panasonic PV-DV953 because it is a really good camcorder and does not cost much at B+H in New York. It is real strong and has many settings but I am sure there are more professional camcorders you can buy that are bigger and costs much more money like Tom's DVC200 black professional Panasonic. $8000.00 is is a lot of money. I am talking to you Carlos so what do you think?

November 28th, 2003, 08:26 PM	#49
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	I agree, Fred, but consider what Carlos intends to do with a miniDV cam. He's hesitant and attempting to choose the best one because he's not sure if he will get 35mm motion film results he expects from a miniDV cam (such as the PV-DV953). That's why I steered him towards reading that article by John Jackman.

November 28th, 2003, 08:39 PM	#50
Guest Posts: n/a	For a MiniDV how about the GL1 PAL as it has a better film look? :-)

November 29th, 2003, 11:59 AM	#51
Fred Garhart Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Calgary, Alberta Posts: 53	I know PAL is Europe TV system. Is it true PAL has better film look? Are PAL professional Panasonic camcorders better because of better Europe film look? Is PAL better for filming more movies like Carlos wants to do in Brazil?

November 29th, 2003, 12:31 PM	#52
Guest Posts: n/a	I believe this link will explain it better and do note the equipment they used.... http://www.dv.com/features/features_...ristiansen0503

November 30th, 2003, 08:51 AM	#53
Carlos E. Martinez Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil Posts: 1,138	<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Granovski : feel free to post whatever you think is important or what you want to share with us. It's not just a few members reading this but also many visitors who drop in 24 hours a day from all corners of the globe. If someone disagrees with you, don't sweat it. I've learned to just accept posts as they come, as long as no one comes in with personal attacks. And we have people posting from all levels of knowledge, which makes things interesting. -->>> Of course it's not problem with people disagreeing with me. The only catch is that they at least understand what they are diagreeing with. Personal attacks I usually disregard too, and I don't think I ever attacked back on any Forum. If possible I try to go deeper in my ideas to help get them through. This time I got impatient because I didn't seem to get anywhere. The whole focus on my quest, which was seeing how far I could get with a DV953 went blurry with issues that should have taken a more constructive direction, instead of becoming a chasing tail exercise. Carlos

November 30th, 2003, 09:14 AM	#54
Carlos E. Martinez Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil Posts: 1,138	<<<-- Originally posted by Tom Neumann : What I said was in no way a slam I wanted to know was in the immortal words of Bugs Bunny "What's Up Doc?"-->>> I'm quite a fan of BB, but I seemed to miss the joke. Sorry. <<<-- As to a camera are you ready to buy or are you playing the field.-->>> Not too sure yet. If I do not get a way to see an actual DV953 test on a DV tape, I may go for a DVC80 first. If the DVC30 was released soon I'd go for it, but I wonder if it won't have the smear problems the PDX10 has on its 1/4" CCDs. <<<-- As to your answer that Video is limited I would have to disagree as the sky is the limit as to the software you could use, the machines that can do the heavy duty work, and the cameras with their features man this is what I have been waiting for. Film is good, film is great, and film looks the best. BUT it also costs more money and the cost of DV wins in the long run. -->>> A lower cost is the biggest problem for more people doing their thing. That is the real revolution and I am totally for it. I don't think you can do too much in post to help the capturing limitations cameras have. If you don't get during the shot it's lost forever. Gamma response becomes the defining factor. So the issue of film being much superior for shooting, not editing, still prevails. But that doesn't really matter. Low budget productions have to be shot in video. Particularly interviews for documentaries. First the XL1, then the PD150 and now the DVX100 have been the protagonists of that revolution. My quest has been to find out if we could take that even farther with a camera that was so low budget that would allow a lot more people doing projects that could be accepted, either by broadcast channels or for film blow-up. That's all. Nothing less, nothing more. The other things I talked about during these discussions were general video questions, which in the DV953 become more critical, like low light response. Low light response is not a question related to ... low light response. It's a gamma question really. If the camera can not resolve dark areas, how much is the low knee compromised even in normal light situations? When I talked about a light meter entering this matter, was just as a matter of reference. A way for a DV953 owner to research on their own cameras, something that would help understand better how things worked in video. We can find a different reference that is not so disturbing. Carlos

November 30th, 2003, 09:23 AM	#55
Carlos E. Martinez Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil Posts: 1,138	<<<-- Originally posted by Fred Garhart : I think you should by a Panasonic PV-DV953 because it is a really good camcorder and does not cost much at B+H in New York. It is real strong and has many settings but I am sure there are more professional camcorders you can buy that are bigger and costs much more money like Tom's DVC200 black professional Panasonic. $8000.00 is is a lot of money. I am talking to you Carlos so what do you think? -->>> In fact, if I went for a 1/6" CCD camera I'd go for a GS100. That model would let me investigate its "wide" options and see if it could be applied to improve the image quality. The DVC200 has just one appeal for me: its 1/2" CCDs. For the rest the Sony DSR250 is much better and also much cheaper. But recently the Panasonyc DVX100 is blowing everything out of the water with its internal settings. Now we have to wait and see if Canon comes forward with a better product. They do not seem too in a hurry. Carlos

November 30th, 2003, 09:26 AM	#56
Carlos E. Martinez Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil Posts: 1,138	<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Granovski : I agree, Fred, but consider what Carlos intends to do with a miniDV cam. He's hesitant and attempting to choose the best one because he's not sure if he will get 35mm motion film results he expects from a miniDV cam (such as the PV-DV953). That's why I steered him towards reading that article by John Jackman. -->>> I am not hesitant towards mini-DV, but towards the DV953/GS100 to see if they can make it. Of course I was familiar with Jackman's article, but it doesn't really answers my questions. Carlos

November 30th, 2003, 09:29 AM	#57
Carlos E. Martinez Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil Posts: 1,138	<<<-- Originally posted by Tom Neumann : For a MiniDV how about the GL1 PAL as it has a better film look? :-) -->>> You mean GL2 I think. A PAL GL2 (XL2 I think it is) might be an option. The problem is that I had a very bad first experience with a GL1 camera, probably because of dirty heads or improper DV tape, which left insecure with Canons and DV too. Whether go for NTSC and PAL right away has other repercussions on my business here, which are not really questions to discuss here. If you want to hear about them, then e-mail me. Carlos

December 1st, 2003, 08:43 AM	#59
Carlos E. Martinez Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil Posts: 1,138	<<<-- Originally posted by Chris Hurd : Hi Carlos, << Whether go for NTSC and PAL right away has other repercussions on my business here, which are not really questions to discuss here. If you want to hear about them, then e-mail me. >> Actually, this subject would be appropriate here and I'd like to learn more about your experiences. We have a different forum called "Taking Care of Business" where business matters are discussed. I appreciate your background and experience, and I think we would all benefit from hearing about some of the things you've been through in the business. Many thanks, -->>> Of course if would be absolutely appropiate to discuss that matter on another section. And I would be willing to discuss it. Can you move just these last two mails and start there for that subject? Carlos

December 1st, 2003, 03:33 PM	#60
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	If you wish, Carlos, start a new thread on the other forum, and I'll copy or move your last 2 posts to there.