humidty issues at DVinfo.net

Peter Warren · October 5th, 2003, 12:48 PM

I am encountering the humidity issue with the GS100k. Coming from Denver, Colroado, where it is very dry, humidty is not much of an issue. But I came to Kauai to shoot a wedding for a friend. It has been hot, muggy, and rainy off and on. The humidity warning has come on twice in the process. Very inconvenient in the midst of critcal shoot.

My question has to do with the all weather housing. Have people, working in humid environments, been using the housing for normal shoots? Does it mitigate the humidity problem? I didn't buy one with the cam, but I may have to get one if I am going to be in humid environs...

I read back awhile about people having problems in Tokyo with humidity...and wondered what folks are doing to avert the problem.

Peter

Rob Wilson · October 5th, 2003, 01:02 PM

Peter,

Ran into the exact same problem shooting a wedding in Jamicia. Everytime I would take the cam (GL2 in this case) from a cool air conditioned environment to the humid outside, len's would fog and humidity warning would occur. The problem is cause by the cam being cooler than the outside air. I got around it by very gently warming the cam with a blow dryer in a hotel room before going outside. As long as the cam is at or slighty above outside air temp, no condensation.

Frank Granovski · October 5th, 2003, 02:02 PM

There's nothing you can do make your cam function in extremily humid conditions, as far as I know. All-weather housing might be one solution, but if it's also hot, as well as humid, all weather housing may cause your cam to over-heat.

Peter Warren · October 5th, 2003, 05:25 PM

Rob, I am aware of the condensation problem when moving from a cold, air conditioned room to the outside in a warm and humid environment. I have done a lot of shooting in Vietnam where this really can be an issue. But here, I didn't move between two extremes...no reason to get sudden condensation... The good news is that the thing dries out reasonably quickly, but the bad news is that it might not be online when you want it...

Peter

Bogdan Vaglarov · October 5th, 2003, 06:36 PM

I would agree with Peter Warren that it's very frustrating to get that message in a critical shot.

My experience was just in home environment where the cam have been at the same conditions (no change for temperature or humidity). So I just took the cam form one corner of the room and shoot in the other and in no time the message terminated the action. I haven't checked how quick it can be reused but it's more than 10-15 minutes for sure. This might ruin all of your projects as a blink of an eye.

Inserting the tape is followed by immediate auto eject - very annoying. I tried several times in a 20 min period and finally gave up going to sleep. Now I keep my cam in a bag with 2 big silica gel paper bags!

I really thing this is not normal (nothing to do with the occasion described by Rob with the GL2). The weather housing might be good solver but in first place this over sensitivity (that's what I think it is) should be alarmed to Pana. In the same environment shooting with Sony TRV10 never gave such problems for 4 years. Or may be this old Sony is wrong! (Just joking)

Frank Granovski · October 5th, 2003, 07:13 PM

For some reason Sony cams in general perform better in more humid and also in colder conditions than JVCs and Panas, from what I read on boards over the years.

Lincoln Norris · October 6th, 2003, 08:19 PM

I have had this problem numerous times now....Its getting cooler here in Tokyo and the tropical; Humid summer is over......

But when I take my camera now from a cold room into the kitchen where its hotter as everybody has been cooking ect ...and the Humidity warning apears...

So I just press the reset button on the side almost straight away and then its usually fine for some time...

I am however getting tired of this and would like to lnow if I should take it back for checking under warranty!

Hassle Pana about the problem a bit....

Do you think that the sensor is too sensative...

Can they adjust the sensor...

Is it worth the hassle of trying to take it up with Pana?

Any thoughts please,

Lincoln

Frank Granovski · October 6th, 2003, 09:19 PM

Hmmm. It sounds like your cam is acting up, unless you have a running shower in the kitchen. Yeah, I would bug Pana. Couldn't hurt.

Bogdan Vaglarov · October 6th, 2003, 10:33 PM

Well my opinion is that the sensor, the adjustment or both are wrong with this model.

Does anybody else have such experience with other model Pana or other brand?
I guess it’s humid in all East Asia so I’ll be happy to hear from Pana owners especially from that region.

I think all cams have slight differences in the adjustment – you can’t make 100% same thing. Standard can be well within 5%. For example Lincoln’s cam might be slightly more sensitive to humidity than mine. But when we find that GS100 is 30% more sensitive than Sony cams that’s a problem and should be addressed to Pana!

With analog VHS-C cam I’ve got only once such problem when entering a small church in the winter. Outside minus temperatures, inside warm and humid because of boiling water, etc. Japanese kitchen might be similar to that church but I guess Lincoln’s room is above 20 degrees (ha-ha).

Any way to finish we should think how to emphasize this problem to Pana. Any suggestions?

Patricia Kim · October 6th, 2003, 11:58 PM

Has anyone considered discussing with supervideo? I still think he has a line into some of the camera/camcorder manufacturers because of his background, and he was able to find out fairly quickly for someone why the underwater housing for the mx5000 doesn't work with the 953. Frank?

Frank Granovski · October 7th, 2003, 12:43 AM

Sure. E-mail Charles: chuckmeister@supervideo.com - maybe he knows something about this.

However, I've read that Panas don't work as good as Sonys in low temps and high humidity. I've read this about many models, such as between the DVC200 and PD150; MX300 and PD100A. JVCs also have trouble with humidity, I have read. (Maybe the DVCAM format works better in these conditions?)

But if that member's Pana is overly sensitive, there's something wrong with the cam and needs servicing.

In a cam's manual, one will find the operating temp and operating humidity specs. So if the cam isn't being used within those ranges, I doubt the warranty will do any good.

Bogdan Vaglarov · October 7th, 2003, 01:22 AM

Frank I would agree with you and will check the recommended values later.

But... any manifacturer usually states safe for themselves numbers. I think it was something in the range 20-80% humidity and 0-30 degrees C which is funny! (I will update the correct numbers as soon as possible).

The logic here is to prevent danger from occurring mist on the head drum or in the optics. This is rather complex stuff not related only to the ambient humidity. There should be in camera logic to calculate for the change in the temperature as well. Soo... I don't know what to say more!

Frank Granovski · October 7th, 2003, 01:32 AM

A few months back I was shooting in rain, at a waterfall. I had my 1 chip all wrapped up in Saran Wrap, plus my wife was holding an umbrella over us (me and the cam). Guess what. Too much humidity and the cam shut itself off. I did get some good footage, though. When I got home, I opened my cam and let it dry out for a couple of days. Then she worked again.

Patricia Kim · October 7th, 2003, 01:39 AM

Well, looking at the manual and guessing at the kanji (based on the numbers), it's supposed to function between 0-40 degrees centigrade and 10%-80% humidity. As hot and humid as Japan gets, I would be surprised, with this model only released for the Japanese market at this time, if the upper edges of that didn't describe Japan during some of the worst part of the year for heat and humidity. So it may well be time for someone to take it back to Panasonic and complain, but those most likely to be effective are those in Japan. That sounds like Lincoln and Bogdan at this point. Things get done in Japan via the back channel, too, though, so a word to Chuck Littman wouldn't hurt, especially if he does have access to a back channel. Otherwise, I can see us all in the rainy season wherever we are trying to shoot events and dragging along hair dryers as a camcorder accessory. Samuel will then have to start adding to the GS100K owners' list who has which model of hair dryer.

Frank Granovski · October 7th, 2003, 02:28 AM

Vancouver usually has 100% or near 100% humidity during the winter months, unless there is a cold spell (cold = dry in Vancouver). The best way I've found to shoot in this kind of weather is to:

1) Wrap the cam in Saran Wrap, which keeps the cam warm ("burning off" the humidity).

2) Keep the rain off the cam with an umbrella. A couple of times I taped one on to my 12.5 pound tripod. (But now that my new tripod weights less than 5 pounds, this setup will probably blow over.)

Oh, and to keep the lens free from say snow or spits of rain, use a nice big honkin' poker-like lens hood. (Hoya's are good.) :)

PS: http://www.8palm.com/nose1.gif

October 5th, 2003, 12:48 PM	#1
Peter Warren Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: DEnver, Colorado , US Posts: 45	humidty issues I am encountering the humidity issue with the GS100k. Coming from Denver, Colroado, where it is very dry, humidty is not much of an issue. But I came to Kauai to shoot a wedding for a friend. It has been hot, muggy, and rainy off and on. The humidity warning has come on twice in the process. Very inconvenient in the midst of critcal shoot. My question has to do with the all weather housing. Have people, working in humid environments, been using the housing for normal shoots? Does it mitigate the humidity problem? I didn't buy one with the cam, but I may have to get one if I am going to be in humid environs... I read back awhile about people having problems in Tokyo with humidity...and wondered what folks are doing to avert the problem. Peter

October 5th, 2003, 01:02 PM	#2
Rob Wilson Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Posts: 473	Peter, Ran into the exact same problem shooting a wedding in Jamicia. Everytime I would take the cam (GL2 in this case) from a cool air conditioned environment to the humid outside, len's would fog and humidity warning would occur. The problem is cause by the cam being cooler than the outside air. I got around it by very gently warming the cam with a blow dryer in a hotel room before going outside. As long as the cam is at or slighty above outside air temp, no condensation.

October 5th, 2003, 02:02 PM	#3
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	There's nothing you can do make your cam function in extremily humid conditions, as far as I know. All-weather housing might be one solution, but if it's also hot, as well as humid, all weather housing may cause your cam to over-heat.

October 5th, 2003, 05:25 PM	#4
Peter Warren Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: DEnver, Colorado , US Posts: 45	Rob, I am aware of the condensation problem when moving from a cold, air conditioned room to the outside in a warm and humid environment. I have done a lot of shooting in Vietnam where this really can be an issue. But here, I didn't move between two extremes...no reason to get sudden condensation... The good news is that the thing dries out reasonably quickly, but the bad news is that it might not be online when you want it... Peter

October 5th, 2003, 06:36 PM	#5
Bogdan Vaglarov Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 366	I would agree with Peter Warren that it's very frustrating to get that message in a critical shot. My experience was just in home environment where the cam have been at the same conditions (no change for temperature or humidity). So I just took the cam form one corner of the room and shoot in the other and in no time the message terminated the action. I haven't checked how quick it can be reused but it's more than 10-15 minutes for sure. This might ruin all of your projects as a blink of an eye. Inserting the tape is followed by immediate auto eject - very annoying. I tried several times in a 20 min period and finally gave up going to sleep. Now I keep my cam in a bag with 2 big silica gel paper bags! I really thing this is not normal (nothing to do with the occasion described by Rob with the GL2). The weather housing might be good solver but in first place this over sensitivity (that's what I think it is) should be alarmed to Pana. In the same environment shooting with Sony TRV10 never gave such problems for 4 years. Or may be this old Sony is wrong! (Just joking)

October 5th, 2003, 07:13 PM	#6
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	For some reason Sony cams in general perform better in more humid and also in colder conditions than JVCs and Panas, from what I read on boards over the years.

October 6th, 2003, 08:19 PM	#7
Lincoln Norris Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Japan Chiba-ken Posts: 42	I have had this problem numerous times now....Its getting cooler here in Tokyo and the tropical; Humid summer is over...... But when I take my camera now from a cold room into the kitchen where its hotter as everybody has been cooking ect ...and the Humidity warning apears... So I just press the reset button on the side almost straight away and then its usually fine for some time... I am however getting tired of this and would like to lnow if I should take it back for checking under warranty! Hassle Pana about the problem a bit.... Do you think that the sensor is too sensative... Can they adjust the sensor... Is it worth the hassle of trying to take it up with Pana? Any thoughts please, Lincoln

October 6th, 2003, 09:19 PM	#8
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Hmmm. It sounds like your cam is acting up, unless you have a running shower in the kitchen. Yeah, I would bug Pana. Couldn't hurt.

October 6th, 2003, 10:33 PM	#9
Bogdan Vaglarov Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 366	Well my opinion is that the sensor, the adjustment or both are wrong with this model. Does anybody else have such experience with other model Pana or other brand? I guess it’s humid in all East Asia so I’ll be happy to hear from Pana owners especially from that region. I think all cams have slight differences in the adjustment – you can’t make 100% same thing. Standard can be well within 5%. For example Lincoln’s cam might be slightly more sensitive to humidity than mine. But when we find that GS100 is 30% more sensitive than Sony cams that’s a problem and should be addressed to Pana! With analog VHS-C cam I’ve got only once such problem when entering a small church in the winter. Outside minus temperatures, inside warm and humid because of boiling water, etc. Japanese kitchen might be similar to that church but I guess Lincoln’s room is above 20 degrees (ha-ha). Any way to finish we should think how to emphasize this problem to Pana. Any suggestions?

October 6th, 2003, 11:58 PM	#10
Patricia Kim Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Posts: 453	Has anyone considered discussing with supervideo? I still think he has a line into some of the camera/camcorder manufacturers because of his background, and he was able to find out fairly quickly for someone why the underwater housing for the mx5000 doesn't work with the 953. Frank?

October 7th, 2003, 12:43 AM	#11
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Sure. E-mail Charles: chuckmeister@supervideo.com - maybe he knows something about this. However, I've read that Panas don't work as good as Sonys in low temps and high humidity. I've read this about many models, such as between the DVC200 and PD150; MX300 and PD100A. JVCs also have trouble with humidity, I have read. (Maybe the DVCAM format works better in these conditions?) But if that member's Pana is overly sensitive, there's something wrong with the cam and needs servicing. In a cam's manual, one will find the operating temp and operating humidity specs. So if the cam isn't being used within those ranges, I doubt the warranty will do any good.

October 7th, 2003, 01:22 AM	#12
Bogdan Vaglarov Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 366	Frank I would agree with you and will check the recommended values later. But... any manifacturer usually states safe for themselves numbers. I think it was something in the range 20-80% humidity and 0-30 degrees C which is funny! (I will update the correct numbers as soon as possible). The logic here is to prevent danger from occurring mist on the head drum or in the optics. This is rather complex stuff not related only to the ambient humidity. There should be in camera logic to calculate for the change in the temperature as well. Soo... I don't know what to say more!

October 7th, 2003, 01:32 AM	#13
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	A few months back I was shooting in rain, at a waterfall. I had my 1 chip all wrapped up in Saran Wrap, plus my wife was holding an umbrella over us (me and the cam). Guess what. Too much humidity and the cam shut itself off. I did get some good footage, though. When I got home, I opened my cam and let it dry out for a couple of days. Then she worked again.

October 7th, 2003, 01:39 AM	#14
Patricia Kim Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Posts: 453	Well, looking at the manual and guessing at the kanji (based on the numbers), it's supposed to function between 0-40 degrees centigrade and 10%-80% humidity. As hot and humid as Japan gets, I would be surprised, with this model only released for the Japanese market at this time, if the upper edges of that didn't describe Japan during some of the worst part of the year for heat and humidity. So it may well be time for someone to take it back to Panasonic and complain, but those most likely to be effective are those in Japan. That sounds like Lincoln and Bogdan at this point. Things get done in Japan via the back channel, too, though, so a word to Chuck Littman wouldn't hurt, especially if he does have access to a back channel. Otherwise, I can see us all in the rainy season wherever we are trying to shoot events and dragging along hair dryers as a camcorder accessory. Samuel will then have to start adding to the GS100K owners' list who has which model of hair dryer.

October 7th, 2003, 02:28 AM	#15
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Vancouver usually has 100% or near 100% humidity during the winter months, unless there is a cold spell (cold = dry in Vancouver). The best way I've found to shoot in this kind of weather is to: 1) Wrap the cam in Saran Wrap, which keeps the cam warm ("burning off" the humidity). 2) Keep the rain off the cam with an umbrella. A couple of times I taped one on to my 12.5 pound tripod. (But now that my new tripod weights less than 5 pounds, this setup will probably blow over.) Oh, and to keep the lens free from say snow or spits of rain, use a nice big honkin' poker-like lens hood. (Hoya's are good.) :) PS: http://www.8palm.com/nose1.gif