Microphone at DVinfo.net

Alan Suen · September 1st, 2003, 10:44 PM

Hi guys....

Any of you got experience in the Panasonic Mics? I mean the difference between the VMS1E and the VMS2E. Which one is better? VMS1E is a zoom one and VMS2E is stereo one....

I found the built in mic pickup 2 much other noise...so I wanted something more directional. Since I lived down under, don't see many good camera accessory store, so I can not see any other brands which is good.....give me some suggestion please.

Thanks.

Frank Granovski · September 1st, 2003, 11:16 PM

http://www.cameraaction.com.au carries these Pana mics. I think the directional costs more and may be a bit better. You can always get a pro mic. However it costs more and you'll need an XLR adaptor most likely.

Alan Suen · September 2nd, 2003, 12:37 AM

Frank....

I gone to that website before, but they don't have any mic listed there.....

Frank Granovski · September 2nd, 2003, 03:42 AM

I would just e-mail them and ask.

The zoom model Pana mic is better, I was told by Pana. I'm not sure how much you want to improve the sound of your cam. Both these mics will improve the sound somewhat, but they are not pro mics. Plus if you had an XLR adaptor, you'll be able to better adjust the audio, with a headset. Personally, I would find the use of either these Pana mics a welcome improvement. Which model Pana do you have?

Peter Jefferson · September 2nd, 2003, 07:24 AM

ive got the VMS2E mic and i find it to be a godsend for the MX500...

in mono it acts like a standard mono shotgun with a 10 to 15db attenuation with a -10 to 15db from the rear and sides.

in stereo mode, it offers similar spec in range with a wider L/R pickup, but has the same cutoff from audio picked up in the rear (ie you)

it also has a wind cut function, but i wouldnt use it, as it cuts off the lower freq of the scale...

for $220 AUD it does the job but its a bit much though....
oh and its got this strange rubber tipped shockmount on the head... very basic not bad for a small cam thou...

Bogdan Vaglarov · September 2nd, 2003, 07:22 PM

Thanks Peter,
I asked you on another thread about this mike so now I've got the answer.

In fact looking at the specs the zoom mics are given: 100Hz-13000Hz in wide mode, 100-8000 in tele (talking about Pana VMH3 - hot shoe for GS100, and VMS1 for MX5000 which has extra mini system adaptor cable to work with the camera zoom).

Checking the on camera zoom mic when in tele the response gets really muffled (lost of high frequencies) and noisy. That's why I was more interested in the cheap VMS2 stereo mic which is rated at 100-20000Hz (disabled low cut).

Peter, you say VMS2 has almost effect of a short shotgun in mono mode. How does the frequency response changes?

Peter Jefferson · September 3rd, 2003, 05:46 AM

Ill check the actual spec tonight, but audibly it does make a difference.
Theres also a chart which shows the freq response depending on the setting.

the only thing the "zoom mics" do is increase gain input as zoom is pulled closer an close off the stereo spread to "tighten" the sound.. never really been one to really njoi this, as i havent noticed much "tightening" from the DS88 or the MX

Peter Jefferson · September 3rd, 2003, 08:13 AM

i seem ot have misplaced the manual which has the spec...

think of the stereo pickup as a love heart picjup range, and the mono, jsut reverse the heart to be the pointy end up the front...

i dunno how it does it

Bogdan Vaglarov · September 3rd, 2003, 10:43 AM

Thanks Peter!

I really think specs are not everything - I pointed themout just to compare the stereo brand Pana with their zoom mics.

I've been willing to start with a better sound for this tiny cam (GS100) and have done some research.

In that moment XLR adapter boxes and mics are pretty much overkill for me so I wanted to go for decent stereo with shoe adaptor. I already own AT9440 short stereo mic but it's a bit heavy and not designed for camera use (hence I have difficulties finding holder/shockmount with shoe adaptor).

The best next choice is AT822 for JPY22500 but it's quite long and heavy.

So VMS2 seem very reasonable for just JPY7200 (prices without tax and shipping). And after reading that Peter who is coming from audio postproduction is content with it's results this mic became my aim.

Peter Jefferson · September 3rd, 2003, 12:05 PM

well, im happy with it and the the makeshift foam windsok works well too... no need (or not much) for the wind cut, which chops out the lower end pickup. U know what, from the way it sounds to the naked ear, i would say that it is the same mic which comes mounted on the DVX as standard. Its the same shape and size and the rubber shockmount is similar and the stereo pickup range is VERY similar.

they use AAA batteries so theyre very light and would make a better alternative (not the best but it does the job)

Put it this way, its MUCH better to use a direction mic (even one as basic as this) considering that the GS' mic position sux the big one.

Allan Rejoso · December 1st, 2004, 07:58 PM

Hi Bogdan,

Have you bought a VMS2? If yes, could you give more feedback please. Does it sound thin or fuller than your GS100 on-board mic (I think the on-board mics of the GS100 and GS400 are the same)?

I've been thinking between the VMS2 and a used Sony ECM S908 (5,980 in Sofmap). I'd rather not spend extra for a VMH3 because I've got long wish lists to fulfill during the holidays. Anyway, I simply want to attenuate the recorded hiss of my GS400 and the rear side.

BTW, I know you're not interested in teleconverters but I saw a used Pana 4314M at Sofmap for 3,980. Didn't check the condition though.

Many thanks!

Bogdan Vaglarov · December 1st, 2004, 10:34 PM

Hi Allan,
No I haven't got yet the VMS2.

I think I mentioned this somewhere but years ago when I bought the small AT9440 I was wonderring between the Sony ECM-908.
I think this type of mics are well suited for MD/DAT portable recorders but they pick up too much ambience noise.

I haven't used my AT in reall world much but tried to make some tests. It seems more sensitive than the GS100 onboard mic with slight pich in the upper frequences. I don't know if I liked that - actually the onboard mic sounded more balanced but with lower detail. For adding some wormth I usually use the onboard with one level of the Bass enabled.
You also should be carefull playing with the manual audio controls - I didn't succeed very well in my only important task last year. Disabling AGC is good only if you know exactly what you're doing and have tested the results once at post.

I don't have idea how it will be in reallity but from what I've read I think the Pana mic would be better for the cam. First it has simple shock mount (rubber neck). Second you can put it in mono mode additionally excluding some of the background noise and narrowing a bit the field.

Sorry I can't be of much help for you but you know how it is - never find the budget for all the toys. Haven't gave up yet though but preffer to go skiing to Hokaido finally this winter ;)
Thanks for the info on the converter lenses too.
Cheers, Bogdan

Allan Rejoso · December 1st, 2004, 11:41 PM

Thanks for the reply Bogdan,

Actually I'm leaning towards the VMS2 but would like to get as much user feedback as I can. Problem is, mics cannot be tested at stores even in Tokyo. The VMS2 appears to be the "meaner" compared to the ECM-908 both physically and on paper (not to mention it is black), but the price difference between it and a VMS1 or VMH3 makes me wonder somehow.

The only time I tried disabling the AGC was when I tested how quiet the recording could be. Well with volume manually set to minimum, it was totally quiet :-)

I don't know when I'd finally be able to go to Hokkaido (I think its cheaper to travel to LA or SF than go up north of Japan). But I'd love to see the Sapporo Ice Festival some day.

Have fun!

Bogdan Vaglarov · December 2nd, 2004, 04:08 AM

Allan, I have some ANA points that I have to use till the end of the year - taihen... Thus going to Hokaido is good chance. I might need the weather case though if decide to take the cam and shoot some white beauty ;)

quote: "...the price difference between it and a VMS1 or VMH3 makes me wonder somehow."

Well I think the difference is so high because of minor changes appealing to the consumer. VMH3 is the only zoom mic you can have with the GS series and also takes power from the hot shoe freeing your mic port for use with the remote (don't know if you can use both at same time though).
Sound quality wise - the zoom function should be just slightly better than on the onboard mic.
I'm confident the VMS2 is the better choice even if they are equal in normal mode as I don't need the zoom function.

Allan Rejoso · December 6th, 2004, 07:31 PM

Got a used VMS2 during the weekend and based on the recordings I've done, I think it is a godsend as Peter wrote.

September 1st, 2003, 10:44 PM	#1
Alan Suen New Boot Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 13	Microphone Hi guys.... Any of you got experience in the Panasonic Mics? I mean the difference between the VMS1E and the VMS2E. Which one is better? VMS1E is a zoom one and VMS2E is stereo one.... I found the built in mic pickup 2 much other noise...so I wanted something more directional. Since I lived down under, don't see many good camera accessory store, so I can not see any other brands which is good.....give me some suggestion please. Thanks. __________________ Al

September 2nd, 2003, 12:37 AM	#3
Alan Suen New Boot Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 13	Frank.... I gone to that website before, but they don't have any mic listed there..... __________________ Al

September 1st, 2003, 11:16 PM	#2
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	http://www.cameraaction.com.au carries these Pana mics. I think the directional costs more and may be a bit better. You can always get a pro mic. However it costs more and you'll need an XLR adaptor most likely.

September 2nd, 2003, 03:42 AM	#4
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	I would just e-mail them and ask. The zoom model Pana mic is better, I was told by Pana. I'm not sure how much you want to improve the sound of your cam. Both these mics will improve the sound somewhat, but they are not pro mics. Plus if you had an XLR adaptor, you'll be able to better adjust the audio, with a headset. Personally, I would find the use of either these Pana mics a welcome improvement. Which model Pana do you have?

September 2nd, 2003, 07:24 AM	#5
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	ive got the VMS2E mic and i find it to be a godsend for the MX500... in mono it acts like a standard mono shotgun with a 10 to 15db attenuation with a -10 to 15db from the rear and sides. in stereo mode, it offers similar spec in range with a wider L/R pickup, but has the same cutoff from audio picked up in the rear (ie you) it also has a wind cut function, but i wouldnt use it, as it cuts off the lower freq of the scale... for $220 AUD it does the job but its a bit much though.... oh and its got this strange rubber tipped shockmount on the head... very basic not bad for a small cam thou...

September 2nd, 2003, 07:22 PM	#6
Bogdan Vaglarov Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 366	Thanks Peter, I asked you on another thread about this mike so now I've got the answer. In fact looking at the specs the zoom mics are given: 100Hz-13000Hz in wide mode, 100-8000 in tele (talking about Pana VMH3 - hot shoe for GS100, and VMS1 for MX5000 which has extra mini system adaptor cable to work with the camera zoom). Checking the on camera zoom mic when in tele the response gets really muffled (lost of high frequencies) and noisy. That's why I was more interested in the cheap VMS2 stereo mic which is rated at 100-20000Hz (disabled low cut). Peter, you say VMS2 has almost effect of a short shotgun in mono mode. How does the frequency response changes?

September 3rd, 2003, 05:46 AM	#7
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	Ill check the actual spec tonight, but audibly it does make a difference. Theres also a chart which shows the freq response depending on the setting. the only thing the "zoom mics" do is increase gain input as zoom is pulled closer an close off the stereo spread to "tighten" the sound.. never really been one to really njoi this, as i havent noticed much "tightening" from the DS88 or the MX

September 3rd, 2003, 08:13 AM	#8
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	i seem ot have misplaced the manual which has the spec... think of the stereo pickup as a love heart picjup range, and the mono, jsut reverse the heart to be the pointy end up the front... i dunno how it does it

September 3rd, 2003, 10:43 AM	#9
Bogdan Vaglarov Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 366	Thanks Peter! I really think specs are not everything - I pointed themout just to compare the stereo brand Pana with their zoom mics. I've been willing to start with a better sound for this tiny cam (GS100) and have done some research. In that moment XLR adapter boxes and mics are pretty much overkill for me so I wanted to go for decent stereo with shoe adaptor. I already own AT9440 short stereo mic but it's a bit heavy and not designed for camera use (hence I have difficulties finding holder/shockmount with shoe adaptor). The best next choice is AT822 for JPY22500 but it's quite long and heavy. So VMS2 seem very reasonable for just JPY7200 (prices without tax and shipping). And after reading that Peter who is coming from audio postproduction is content with it's results this mic became my aim.

September 3rd, 2003, 12:05 PM	#10
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	well, im happy with it and the the makeshift foam windsok works well too... no need (or not much) for the wind cut, which chops out the lower end pickup. U know what, from the way it sounds to the naked ear, i would say that it is the same mic which comes mounted on the DVX as standard. Its the same shape and size and the rubber shockmount is similar and the stereo pickup range is VERY similar. they use AAA batteries so theyre very light and would make a better alternative (not the best but it does the job) Put it this way, its MUCH better to use a direction mic (even one as basic as this) considering that the GS' mic position sux the big one.

December 1st, 2004, 07:58 PM	#11
Allan Rejoso Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 569	Hi Bogdan, Have you bought a VMS2? If yes, could you give more feedback please. Does it sound thin or fuller than your GS100 on-board mic (I think the on-board mics of the GS100 and GS400 are the same)? I've been thinking between the VMS2 and a used Sony ECM S908 (5,980 in Sofmap). I'd rather not spend extra for a VMH3 because I've got long wish lists to fulfill during the holidays. Anyway, I simply want to attenuate the recorded hiss of my GS400 and the rear side. BTW, I know you're not interested in teleconverters but I saw a used Pana 4314M at Sofmap for 3,980. Didn't check the condition though. Many thanks!

December 1st, 2004, 10:34 PM	#12
Bogdan Vaglarov Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 366	Hi Allan, No I haven't got yet the VMS2. I think I mentioned this somewhere but years ago when I bought the small AT9440 I was wonderring between the Sony ECM-908. I think this type of mics are well suited for MD/DAT portable recorders but they pick up too much ambience noise. I haven't used my AT in reall world much but tried to make some tests. It seems more sensitive than the GS100 onboard mic with slight pich in the upper frequences. I don't know if I liked that - actually the onboard mic sounded more balanced but with lower detail. For adding some wormth I usually use the onboard with one level of the Bass enabled. You also should be carefull playing with the manual audio controls - I didn't succeed very well in my only important task last year. Disabling AGC is good only if you know exactly what you're doing and have tested the results once at post. I don't have idea how it will be in reallity but from what I've read I think the Pana mic would be better for the cam. First it has simple shock mount (rubber neck). Second you can put it in mono mode additionally excluding some of the background noise and narrowing a bit the field. Sorry I can't be of much help for you but you know how it is - never find the budget for all the toys. Haven't gave up yet though but preffer to go skiing to Hokaido finally this winter ;) Thanks for the info on the converter lenses too. Cheers, Bogdan

December 1st, 2004, 11:41 PM	#13
Allan Rejoso Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 569	Thanks for the reply Bogdan, Actually I'm leaning towards the VMS2 but would like to get as much user feedback as I can. Problem is, mics cannot be tested at stores even in Tokyo. The VMS2 appears to be the "meaner" compared to the ECM-908 both physically and on paper (not to mention it is black), but the price difference between it and a VMS1 or VMH3 makes me wonder somehow. The only time I tried disabling the AGC was when I tested how quiet the recording could be. Well with volume manually set to minimum, it was totally quiet :-) I don't know when I'd finally be able to go to Hokkaido (I think its cheaper to travel to LA or SF than go up north of Japan). But I'd love to see the Sapporo Ice Festival some day. Have fun!

December 2nd, 2004, 04:08 AM	#14
Bogdan Vaglarov Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 366	Allan, I have some ANA points that I have to use till the end of the year - taihen... Thus going to Hokaido is good chance. I might need the weather case though if decide to take the cam and shoot some white beauty ;) quote: "...the price difference between it and a VMS1 or VMH3 makes me wonder somehow." Well I think the difference is so high because of minor changes appealing to the consumer. VMH3 is the only zoom mic you can have with the GS series and also takes power from the hot shoe freeing your mic port for use with the remote (don't know if you can use both at same time though). Sound quality wise - the zoom function should be just slightly better than on the onboard mic. I'm confident the VMS2 is the better choice even if they are equal in normal mode as I don't need the zoom function.

December 6th, 2004, 07:31 PM	#15
Allan Rejoso Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 569	Got a used VMS2 during the weekend and based on the recordings I've done, I think it is a godsend as Peter wrote.