I need your input please at DVinfo.net

Paul Jason · August 9th, 2003, 12:50 PM

I've been doing alot of research, read a lot of the posts here and have asked a few questions and now I'm down to these two cameras the Panasonic GS100 or the Sony PDX10. I think:-) Some of the things I plan to do with this camera is are a kids singing video and a documentary, among other things.
I would like to ask a few more questions before I put my order in. Maybe those of you who own both cameras or have had experience with both can answer my questions. ( I am aware of the Japanese menu system on the GS100 and think I will be able to work around it)

1. In your opinions, what advantage and disadvantage does one have over the other?

2. Video quality difference between the two? (Big difference?)

3. Anything better under $1880.00 I should look at. ( I would like to stay the 3 CCD cameras)

I really appreciate your input on this! Thank you for taking time to reply.

Peter Jefferson · August 9th, 2003, 02:20 PM

the pd is a fairly old cam, good ut old by todays standards.
on top of that for what you want to use it for (docos and such) i think the cinegamma and size of teh unit in general is a bonus. Not to mention that image resolution and audio would be far superior technically than the sony.

im a lil biased, however with its widescreen, still shot res, and the awsome manual settings of these units (mx/dv/gs) i would personally go the Pana.

Im more of the mond where i dont want it to look like home video.. this cam (from the spec alone) seems to be able to provide.
I use to use 2 MX500's extensively and im extremly happy with all my work using these tools.
I upgraded 1 cam to a DVX, however as soon as the GS is released in PAL, the other MX will go as well...

What im saying is that my clients are extremely pleased with the results using the MX, but teh GS promises better image quality, and the spec alone (as well as cineGamma) would make this a perfect companion for the DVX.

Paul Jason · August 9th, 2003, 03:17 PM

I didn't realize that the sony pdx10 was old. All the reviews I read were dated 2003. The DSR PDX10 and the PDX10 are the same right?

Frank Granovski · August 9th, 2003, 04:21 PM

Paul, the TRV950/PDX10 are about 1 & 1/2 years old. That's not old compared with cams like the VX2000 still selling strongly after, what, 4 years? Your main question is which one's better: the GS100 or PSX10. Paul, they are both very good cams, with the PDX having XLRs and the DVCAM format. The PDX audio is also very good, much improved over the VX2000/PD150. But like Peter mentioned, the GS100 uses the latest technology. It's video quality will be better that PDX quality. For audio, you will have to get an XLR adaptor, such as a Glenbox, Beachtek or Signvideo, and a decent mic. Audio is most often overlooked when thinking of taking broadcast quality footage, such as a doc. If it were me deciding, I would go with the GS100. I don't like the PDX10 as a hand-held because I can't hold it! It has almost no ridge for your fingers, and the cam pulls forward and to the left. If your hand has the least bit of sweat on it, trust me, you'll also have to use your left hand to hold it. As a tripod cam, the PDX10 is just fine. The biggest drawback with the GS100 is getting used to Japanese. If this is not a problem, I suggest going with it, or the PV-DV953. Yes, I like the PV-DV953 better than the PDX10, though the GS100, in my opinion, is a the better cam. At least I can read the its menu, and the PV-DV953 is build like a sh_t brickhouse, fantastic controls, high resolution, great 16:9, great audio, easy to hold---and did I mention that the menus are in English? Oh, and the PV-DV953 is a way cheaper than the DVX10---mind you, you'll need that XLR adaptor.

If you're planning on getting a GS100, I suggest getting it through Allan, MX Source (Chuckmeister), or through Tim via pricejapan. The GS100 is only sold in Japan. There are no plans for a North American version or a PAL version, according to Panasonic Japan. But of course I've caught them on their lies over the years. Anyways, you just have to pick your poison. PDX, GS100 or DV953---they're all great cams.

For good advive on these cams, I suggest reading what Allan writes about them, and also what Tommy has to say (Tommy? Hello?). Tommy has owned a PV-DV953, and has just recently purchased a PDX10. I'm sure his feedback will be coming soon---or perhaps he now misses his PV-DV953. I would. :)

See who's saving up for one: http://www.dvfreak.com/mx5000ad.jpg

Paul Jason · August 9th, 2003, 07:44 PM

Thanks Frank and Peter for the great info! I'm looking forward to hearing from Tommy. Till then...

I do have one question for you Frank, (or others) What are the got to have accessories for the GS100? If I'm going to order I guess I should get it all at once.

Frank Granovski · August 9th, 2003, 07:51 PM

The only thing extra you would need, I presume, is a couple of extra batteries. The Pana wide angle might come in handy too, I don't know, it's your call. A protective UV, and perhaps a polarizer, can be bought almost anywhere.

Paul Jason · August 9th, 2003, 10:08 PM

The only thing extra you would need, I presume, is a couple of extra batteries. The Pana wide angle might come in handy too, I don't know, it's your call. A protective UV, and perhaps a polarizer, can be bought almost anywhere.

Of the things you listed above what are the ones I can only get from Panasonic over seas? Sorry for so many questions.

Frank Granovski · August 10th, 2003, 03:06 AM

Most of the Pana extras are difficult or imposible to buy in North America. You have to decide what you need or want. However, if you buy your cam from MX Source, many of these extras are included.

Allan Rejoso · August 10th, 2003, 09:33 AM

I think the accessories available only in Japan are as follows:

Underwater housing
Snow & rain jacket
Video Light (battery powered)
Spare lamp
Waist Battery
Hot Shoe Mic
Hot Shoe Video Light

Ordinary batts, equivalent/better add-on lenses and filters should be available elsewhere.

Paul Jason · August 10th, 2003, 06:08 PM

Thanks Allen and Frank for the info, what I will be looking for right off is a lens filter set UV and Polarized and an extra battery. (One like the one that comes with the GS100) Where is the best place to get them at the best price? I’m not looking for ANYTHING that will degrade the picture quality nor am I looking to take out a loan to pay for a battery and lens filter.

Allan Rejoso · August 10th, 2003, 09:45 PM

I've been using JPY1,200 filters (approx. $10) (MC Protector, ND4, UV) made by Kenko without any problems.

Pany filters cost basically the same but they only have MC Protector and ND8.

No idea about polarizers but quite curious to know why the circular type is about 2x more expensive than the linear one. I've read somewhere about Mr. Beaser's post that circular polarizer is not necessary for video cams.

If you're willing to try "equivalent" batts, check out sabahoceanic.com or, certain listings on e-bay about batteries that originate from Hongkong.

Regards

Bogdan Vaglarov · August 10th, 2003, 10:15 PM

Allan, I checked the sabahoceanic.com and they don't seem to have the replacement for the new Pana line camcorders yet.

I ordered 2 VBD21 batteries from eBay with Hong Kong origin so now I'm waiting for the result. There were mixed feedback about the supplier so I hope everything goes well. Do you know how to deal with customs in Japan?

Otherwise the price was astonishing - 2 batteries for the money I would pay for 1 from kakaku web shop! Shipping rate was also very low.

Where I live there is not much choice (read no choice) of filters. I preffer to have UV using it also as protector and ND4. I can get Kenko for 1500 yen via order at a local photgraphic shop at most.

Any choices for ordering at lower price within Japan?

I'll apretiate any help, thanks.

Tommy Haupfear · August 11th, 2003, 08:57 PM

Oops how did I miss this thread? Oh yeah thats right I was stuck in a hotel in Dallas. I did at least get some really good footage from my PDX10!

I like the increased angle of view in both the GS100 and PDX10 while in 16:9 mode. The DV953 has a low resolution loss widescreen mode but does not increase the angle of view.

I really enjoyed my DV953 but I wanted a better widescreen mode and hopefully less grain in dim light. Then came along the GS100 and I was ready to go with the GS100 (black) when I started thinking about the PDX10. So I made up a PRO/CON list like below before my purchase.

PDX10

Pro - 3CCD - OIS - 16:9 - English Menus - XLR - B&W VF
Con - Heavy - No Frame Mode - Vertical Smear

GS100

Pro - 3CCD - OIS - 16:9 - Frame Mode
Con - Japanese menus - Warranty (Japan)

I've had a Panasonic from Japan before (NV-MX1000) and why yes I learned to easily navigate the menus (from memory) I was always thrown off by a pop-up error or message that was not really described in the manual. As far as settings go it was a breeze setting shutter speeds and iris since it was just numbers!

So tally it up as to whats important to you and see which one tips the scale. I can honestly say that if the GS100 is an improvement over the already great DV953 then either way you're getting a great cam!

BTW - the low light on the PDX10 is about the same as to what it can see compared to the DV953 (comparable settings) but the image has less noise.

Images of my PDX10

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-...040(Small).jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-...896(Small).jpg

Allan Rejoso · August 14th, 2003, 02:23 AM

Bogdan, I noticed that you live in Kyushuu area so I guess JPY1,500 for a filter is reasonable enough... If you order from any store in Tokyo or Osaka and add money transfer cost and Takkyubin fee (at least JPY500 right?), it'd cost much higher than that amount, unless you order a lot. I don't think stores would deliver their merchandise by Post Office but perhaps you should check. The JPY1,200 Kenko lenses I've seen so far are MC Protector, UV, ND4, and Close-up Lenses 1,2,3. Polarizer is about JPY4,000, soft tone filters about JPY2000-3,000.

But you should really try an ND filter when shooting under bright sunny conditions. The difference is quite amazing. Your local shop should be able to get the Kenko one and sell it to you for around JPY1,500.

Customs ne...so far, I didn't have to pay a single yen for all electronic stuffs, DVDs and books I've ordered from Amazon.com...I also didn't have to pay any duty for all kinds of stuffs that my relatives send from the US. BUT, when I asked a sister to buy a first communion dress, the delivery man charged me nearly JPY1,000 as duty/tax. (my sister made the mistake of declaring the full amount of the dress...oops).

Be looking forward to your feedback about the Hongkong batteries. Note that genuine Pany batteries are all made in Japan. Many thanks.

Bogdan Vaglarov · August 14th, 2003, 06:38 PM

Hi Allan, thanks a lot for the advise!

The only other option for me was to order from hat-in.com which doesn't charges for sending if order exceeds 20,000 yen. Meanwhile I found the e-Bay source for the batteries so I quitted ordering from them. Hat-In have good selection (and prices) of accessories of all camcorder brands but not third party makers. They only had Pana filter set.

I'm considering buying a better tripod, mic, etc. and have found some more pro orientated online stores. But they have only large filter sizes. I'll be fooling around a bit more but may be will order the filters from my local shop.

Thanks for the customs information too. I also have received books but was wondering for electronics. Batteries were shown as original Pana but I’m still waiting – the seller is reported to be slow to deliver.

August 9th, 2003, 12:50 PM	#1
Paul Jason Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 163	I need your input please I've been doing alot of research, read a lot of the posts here and have asked a few questions and now I'm down to these two cameras the Panasonic GS100 or the Sony PDX10. I think:-) Some of the things I plan to do with this camera is are a kids singing video and a documentary, among other things. I would like to ask a few more questions before I put my order in. Maybe those of you who own both cameras or have had experience with both can answer my questions. ( I am aware of the Japanese menu system on the GS100 and think I will be able to work around it) 1. In your opinions, what advantage and disadvantage does one have over the other? 2. Video quality difference between the two? (Big difference?) 3. Anything better under $1880.00 I should look at. ( I would like to stay the 3 CCD cameras) I really appreciate your input on this! Thank you for taking time to reply.

August 9th, 2003, 02:20 PM	#2
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	the pd is a fairly old cam, good ut old by todays standards. on top of that for what you want to use it for (docos and such) i think the cinegamma and size of teh unit in general is a bonus. Not to mention that image resolution and audio would be far superior technically than the sony. im a lil biased, however with its widescreen, still shot res, and the awsome manual settings of these units (mx/dv/gs) i would personally go the Pana. Im more of the mond where i dont want it to look like home video.. this cam (from the spec alone) seems to be able to provide. I use to use 2 MX500's extensively and im extremly happy with all my work using these tools. I upgraded 1 cam to a DVX, however as soon as the GS is released in PAL, the other MX will go as well... What im saying is that my clients are extremely pleased with the results using the MX, but teh GS promises better image quality, and the spec alone (as well as cineGamma) would make this a perfect companion for the DVX.

August 9th, 2003, 03:17 PM	#3
Paul Jason Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 163	I didn't realize that the sony pdx10 was old. All the reviews I read were dated 2003. The DSR PDX10 and the PDX10 are the same right?

August 9th, 2003, 04:21 PM	#4
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Paul, the TRV950/PDX10 are about 1 & 1/2 years old. That's not old compared with cams like the VX2000 still selling strongly after, what, 4 years? Your main question is which one's better: the GS100 or PSX10. Paul, they are both very good cams, with the PDX having XLRs and the DVCAM format. The PDX audio is also very good, much improved over the VX2000/PD150. But like Peter mentioned, the GS100 uses the latest technology. It's video quality will be better that PDX quality. For audio, you will have to get an XLR adaptor, such as a Glenbox, Beachtek or Signvideo, and a decent mic. Audio is most often overlooked when thinking of taking broadcast quality footage, such as a doc. If it were me deciding, I would go with the GS100. I don't like the PDX10 as a hand-held because I can't hold it! It has almost no ridge for your fingers, and the cam pulls forward and to the left. If your hand has the least bit of sweat on it, trust me, you'll also have to use your left hand to hold it. As a tripod cam, the PDX10 is just fine. The biggest drawback with the GS100 is getting used to Japanese. If this is not a problem, I suggest going with it, or the PV-DV953. Yes, I like the PV-DV953 better than the PDX10, though the GS100, in my opinion, is a the better cam. At least I can read the its menu, and the PV-DV953 is build like a sh_t brickhouse, fantastic controls, high resolution, great 16:9, great audio, easy to hold---and did I mention that the menus are in English? Oh, and the PV-DV953 is a way cheaper than the DVX10---mind you, you'll need that XLR adaptor. If you're planning on getting a GS100, I suggest getting it through Allan, MX Source (Chuckmeister), or through Tim via pricejapan. The GS100 is only sold in Japan. There are no plans for a North American version or a PAL version, according to Panasonic Japan. But of course I've caught them on their lies over the years. Anyways, you just have to pick your poison. PDX, GS100 or DV953---they're all great cams. For good advive on these cams, I suggest reading what Allan writes about them, and also what Tommy has to say (Tommy? Hello?). Tommy has owned a PV-DV953, and has just recently purchased a PDX10. I'm sure his feedback will be coming soon---or perhaps he now misses his PV-DV953. I would. :) See who's saving up for one: http://www.dvfreak.com/mx5000ad.jpg

August 9th, 2003, 07:44 PM	#5
Paul Jason Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 163	Thanks Frank and Peter for the great info! I'm looking forward to hearing from Tommy. Till then... I do have one question for you Frank, (or others) What are the got to have accessories for the GS100? If I'm going to order I guess I should get it all at once.

August 9th, 2003, 07:51 PM	#6
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	The only thing extra you would need, I presume, is a couple of extra batteries. The Pana wide angle might come in handy too, I don't know, it's your call. A protective UV, and perhaps a polarizer, can be bought almost anywhere.

August 9th, 2003, 10:08 PM	#7
Paul Jason Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 163	The only thing extra you would need, I presume, is a couple of extra batteries. The Pana wide angle might come in handy too, I don't know, it's your call. A protective UV, and perhaps a polarizer, can be bought almost anywhere. Of the things you listed above what are the ones I can only get from Panasonic over seas? Sorry for so many questions.

August 10th, 2003, 03:06 AM	#8
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Most of the Pana extras are difficult or imposible to buy in North America. You have to decide what you need or want. However, if you buy your cam from MX Source, many of these extras are included.

August 10th, 2003, 09:33 AM	#9
Allan Rejoso Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 569	I think the accessories available only in Japan are as follows: Underwater housing Snow & rain jacket Video Light (battery powered) Spare lamp Waist Battery Hot Shoe Mic Hot Shoe Video Light Ordinary batts, equivalent/better add-on lenses and filters should be available elsewhere.

August 10th, 2003, 06:08 PM	#10
Paul Jason Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 163	Thanks Allen and Frank for the info, what I will be looking for right off is a lens filter set UV and Polarized and an extra battery. (One like the one that comes with the GS100) Where is the best place to get them at the best price? I’m not looking for ANYTHING that will degrade the picture quality nor am I looking to take out a loan to pay for a battery and lens filter.

August 10th, 2003, 09:45 PM	#11
Allan Rejoso Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 569	I've been using JPY1,200 filters (approx. $10) (MC Protector, ND4, UV) made by Kenko without any problems. Pany filters cost basically the same but they only have MC Protector and ND8. No idea about polarizers but quite curious to know why the circular type is about 2x more expensive than the linear one. I've read somewhere about Mr. Beaser's post that circular polarizer is not necessary for video cams. If you're willing to try "equivalent" batts, check out sabahoceanic.com or, certain listings on e-bay about batteries that originate from Hongkong. Regards

August 10th, 2003, 10:15 PM	#12
Bogdan Vaglarov Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 366	Allan, I checked the sabahoceanic.com and they don't seem to have the replacement for the new Pana line camcorders yet. I ordered 2 VBD21 batteries from eBay with Hong Kong origin so now I'm waiting for the result. There were mixed feedback about the supplier so I hope everything goes well. Do you know how to deal with customs in Japan? Otherwise the price was astonishing - 2 batteries for the money I would pay for 1 from kakaku web shop! Shipping rate was also very low. Where I live there is not much choice (read no choice) of filters. I preffer to have UV using it also as protector and ND4. I can get Kenko for 1500 yen via order at a local photgraphic shop at most. Any choices for ordering at lower price within Japan? I'll apretiate any help, thanks.

August 11th, 2003, 08:57 PM	#13
Tommy Haupfear Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 1,415	Oops how did I miss this thread? Oh yeah thats right I was stuck in a hotel in Dallas. I did at least get some really good footage from my PDX10! I like the increased angle of view in both the GS100 and PDX10 while in 16:9 mode. The DV953 has a low resolution loss widescreen mode but does not increase the angle of view. I really enjoyed my DV953 but I wanted a better widescreen mode and hopefully less grain in dim light. Then came along the GS100 and I was ready to go with the GS100 (black) when I started thinking about the PDX10. So I made up a PRO/CON list like below before my purchase. PDX10 Pro - 3CCD - OIS - 16:9 - English Menus - XLR - B&W VF Con - Heavy - No Frame Mode - Vertical Smear GS100 Pro - 3CCD - OIS - 16:9 - Frame Mode Con - Japanese menus - Warranty (Japan) I've had a Panasonic from Japan before (NV-MX1000) and why yes I learned to easily navigate the menus (from memory) I was always thrown off by a pop-up error or message that was not really described in the manual. As far as settings go it was a breeze setting shutter speeds and iris since it was just numbers! So tally it up as to whats important to you and see which one tips the scale. I can honestly say that if the GS100 is an improvement over the already great DV953 then either way you're getting a great cam! BTW - the low light on the PDX10 is about the same as to what it can see compared to the DV953 (comparable settings) but the image has less noise. Images of my PDX10 http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-...040(Small).jpg http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-...896(Small).jpg

August 14th, 2003, 02:23 AM	#14
Allan Rejoso Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 569	Bogdan, I noticed that you live in Kyushuu area so I guess JPY1,500 for a filter is reasonable enough... If you order from any store in Tokyo or Osaka and add money transfer cost and Takkyubin fee (at least JPY500 right?), it'd cost much higher than that amount, unless you order a lot. I don't think stores would deliver their merchandise by Post Office but perhaps you should check. The JPY1,200 Kenko lenses I've seen so far are MC Protector, UV, ND4, and Close-up Lenses 1,2,3. Polarizer is about JPY4,000, soft tone filters about JPY2000-3,000. But you should really try an ND filter when shooting under bright sunny conditions. The difference is quite amazing. Your local shop should be able to get the Kenko one and sell it to you for around JPY1,500. Customs ne...so far, I didn't have to pay a single yen for all electronic stuffs, DVDs and books I've ordered from Amazon.com...I also didn't have to pay any duty for all kinds of stuffs that my relatives send from the US. BUT, when I asked a sister to buy a first communion dress, the delivery man charged me nearly JPY1,000 as duty/tax. (my sister made the mistake of declaring the full amount of the dress...oops). Be looking forward to your feedback about the Hongkong batteries. Note that genuine Pany batteries are all made in Japan. Many thanks.

August 14th, 2003, 06:38 PM	#15
Bogdan Vaglarov Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 366	Hi Allan, thanks a lot for the advise! The only other option for me was to order from hat-in.com which doesn't charges for sending if order exceeds 20,000 yen. Meanwhile I found the e-Bay source for the batteries so I quitted ordering from them. Hat-In have good selection (and prices) of accessories of all camcorder brands but not third party makers. They only had Pana filter set. I'm considering buying a better tripod, mic, etc. and have found some more pro orientated online stores. But they have only large filter sizes. I'll be fooling around a bit more but may be will order the filters from my local shop. Thanks for the customs information too. I also have received books but was wondering for electronics. Batteries were shown as original Pana but I’m still waiting – the seller is reported to be slow to deliver.