New Pana NV-GS1000K

Frank Granovski · July 4th, 2003, 05:08 AM

Thanks, Allan.

There are always trade-offs, it seems. I'm looking forward to reading more of your findings with this new cam. I also wonder if the 16:9 mode is any different. What about noise from the "engine?" (is it fairly silent running as with the MX5/DV953?)

Tommy Haupfear · July 4th, 2003, 08:56 AM

I am slightly confused on the vertical zooming in widescreen mode.

http://panasonic.jp/dvc/DIGICAM/gs100k/ki_wide.html

The link above cannot be translated by AltaVista's Babel Fish as most of the text is in picture format. From my best guess it seems like they are comparing the widescreen mode of the GS100k to the standard widescreen of say the MX3000 (not MX5000). There appears to be a 1.04 vertical zoom to obtain the GS100k widescreen picture (with increased viewing angle like PDX10) but even though the MX5000/DV953 doesn't have a wider viewing angle it does have a 1:1 ratio without the need of vertical zooming.

This makes it seem that while you're gaining a wider viewing angle you're also losing vertical resolution although its only a .04 vertical zoom difference.

Anyone else have a take?

DV953/MX5000 Widescreen Mode (PAL 720x576 - NTSC 720x480)

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-...IYZP-1-1-5.jpg

Tommy Haupfear · July 4th, 2003, 09:11 AM

For those looking for the 3MP stills for the GS100k here is the link

http://panasonic.jp/dvc/DIGICAM/gs10...oto_index.html

Allan Rejoso · July 4th, 2003, 10:03 AM

I may be wrong but my understanding is that the GS100 uses a wider area of CCD (934 x 576) compared to the previous model (5000) which uses only 876 x 540 to capture the image. Then, a two-step conversion is done to achieve first, the 720 horizontal aspect and then, the 480 vertical aspect.

In the case of the GS100, the intermediate conversion results to a widescreen image of 720x460. In order to achieve 480, the vertical aspect needs to be Digitally Zoomed by a factor of ONLY 1.04.

In the case of the 5000, the same intermediate conversion results to a widescreen image of 720 x 360. In order to achieve the same 480, the vertical aspect needs to be Digitally zoomed by 1.3.

The lower digital zooming factor used by the GS100 results in lesser loss, thus better resolution widescreen image.

I hope I make some sense.

Allan Rejoso · July 4th, 2003, 10:07 AM

In any case, there are some losses in the vertical resolution.

Allan Rejoso · July 4th, 2003, 10:21 AM

BTW, Pany used the word (JUURAI no wide mode) whose literal translation is previous/former/conventional wide mode. Thus, I am assuming Pany is referring to the 5000..but they could be referring to even older models... The PAL 500 does not do vertical zooming, right?

Mmmm, I'd better review the 5000 papers.

Tommy Haupfear · July 4th, 2003, 10:46 AM

Are they claiming 30P to be progressive scan or frame mode?

And have you seen whether the pixels per CCD are 800k like the DV953 or less like in on translation posted earlier in this thread?

Thanks again,
Tommy

Allan Rejoso · July 4th, 2003, 04:24 PM

The following link is quite clear that the JUURAI (previous) model being referred to is the MX5000.

http://panasonic.jp/dvc/DIGICAM/gs100k/kinou.html

Frank Granovski · July 4th, 2003, 04:40 PM

Man, why can't Panasonic "speak in tongue?" They do, afterall, flog their cams worldwide.

Allan Rejoso · July 4th, 2003, 04:51 PM

So it appears to me that while the PAL 500 does not have any vertical resolution loss, that is not the case for the NTSC 5000.

Each GS100 CCD has the same number of pixels as that of 5000. 800K total/640K effective for video/ 700k effective for stills.

From the Japanese website and manual, Pany used the following phrase to describe pro-cinema mode

"...30 frames per second progressive recording with cinelike gamma ......during playback, each progressively recorded frame is resolved into 2 interlaced frames..."

note that they didn't use the term "scan."

Peter Jefferson · July 4th, 2003, 09:34 PM

sounds like an advanced form of frame mode....

cinelike gamma... hmmm... methinks time to save for this one as a second cam to the DVX....

Patricia Kim · July 4th, 2003, 09:49 PM

Check out rumors at camcorderinfo.com. It appears that the major digicam makers in Japan have signed on to accepting JVC's HD standard. If so, what's been dissed up to now as a rumor about an MX7000 that is HD capable may be true. I checked out the site where the rumor popped up and agreed that it sounded as though it was a mix-up re the GS-100, especially since the photos on the site are of the 100. However, since Panasonic is said to have signed on to the HD standard, I am beginning to think the rumor may be more than that. Why buy in unless you are ready to move, especially with the JVC already on the market. In which case, the GS-100 will be old hat in a few months, if not sooner. (Not sorry I bought it, though. I think it does great indoors in simple point and shoot mode; I believe it will capture spontaneity at indoor events in exactly the way I want.)

Tommy Haupfear · July 4th, 2003, 10:33 PM

I wonder if the High Definition banner on the link below had anything to do with the Chukmeister's zany idea of a HD cam? I pulled it directly from Panasonic's website.

High Definition Technology?

http://panasonic.jp/dvc/DIGICAM/gs100k/gashitsu.html

Allan Rejoso · July 5th, 2003, 01:30 AM

"High Definition Technology"

LOL. One point Japanese to avoid misunderstanding Japanese sites.

HD as the rest of the world understand is called "Hi-Vision" in Japan.

So what we have here are

Hi-Vision Terebi (TV)
Hi-Vision Projection Terebi
Hi-Vision Ekisho (LCD) Terebi
Hi-Vision Plasma Terebi
Hi-Vision Movie (Camera)
Hi-Vision Recorder

BTW, when the Japanese say Hi-Vision Terebi, they don't mean HD-Ready TV.. They call that Progressive Terebi instead.

Regards

Frank Granovski · July 5th, 2003, 01:38 AM

Thanks for the info, Allan; I had no idea!

July 4th, 2003, 05:08 AM	#31
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Thanks, Allan. There are always trade-offs, it seems. I'm looking forward to reading more of your findings with this new cam. I also wonder if the 16:9 mode is any different. What about noise from the "engine?" (is it fairly silent running as with the MX5/DV953?)

July 4th, 2003, 08:56 AM	#32
Tommy Haupfear Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 1,415	I am slightly confused on the vertical zooming in widescreen mode. http://panasonic.jp/dvc/DIGICAM/gs100k/ki_wide.html The link above cannot be translated by AltaVista's Babel Fish as most of the text is in picture format. From my best guess it seems like they are comparing the widescreen mode of the GS100k to the standard widescreen of say the MX3000 (not MX5000). There appears to be a 1.04 vertical zoom to obtain the GS100k widescreen picture (with increased viewing angle like PDX10) but even though the MX5000/DV953 doesn't have a wider viewing angle it does have a 1:1 ratio without the need of vertical zooming. This makes it seem that while you're gaining a wider viewing angle you're also losing vertical resolution although its only a .04 vertical zoom difference. Anyone else have a take? DV953/MX5000 Widescreen Mode (PAL 720x576 - NTSC 720x480) http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-...IYZP-1-1-5.jpg

July 4th, 2003, 09:11 AM	#33
Tommy Haupfear Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 1,415	For those looking for the 3MP stills for the GS100k here is the link http://panasonic.jp/dvc/DIGICAM/gs10...oto_index.html

July 4th, 2003, 10:03 AM	#34
Allan Rejoso Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 569	I may be wrong but my understanding is that the GS100 uses a wider area of CCD (934 x 576) compared to the previous model (5000) which uses only 876 x 540 to capture the image. Then, a two-step conversion is done to achieve first, the 720 horizontal aspect and then, the 480 vertical aspect. In the case of the GS100, the intermediate conversion results to a widescreen image of 720x460. In order to achieve 480, the vertical aspect needs to be Digitally Zoomed by a factor of ONLY 1.04. In the case of the 5000, the same intermediate conversion results to a widescreen image of 720 x 360. In order to achieve the same 480, the vertical aspect needs to be Digitally zoomed by 1.3. The lower digital zooming factor used by the GS100 results in lesser loss, thus better resolution widescreen image. I hope I make some sense.

July 4th, 2003, 10:07 AM	#35
Allan Rejoso Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 569	In any case, there are some losses in the vertical resolution.

July 4th, 2003, 10:21 AM	#36
Allan Rejoso Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 569	BTW, Pany used the word (JUURAI no wide mode) whose literal translation is previous/former/conventional wide mode. Thus, I am assuming Pany is referring to the 5000..but they could be referring to even older models... The PAL 500 does not do vertical zooming, right? Mmmm, I'd better review the 5000 papers.

July 4th, 2003, 10:46 AM	#37
Tommy Haupfear Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 1,415	Are they claiming 30P to be progressive scan or frame mode? And have you seen whether the pixels per CCD are 800k like the DV953 or less like in on translation posted earlier in this thread? Thanks again, Tommy

July 4th, 2003, 04:24 PM	#38
Allan Rejoso Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 569	The following link is quite clear that the JUURAI (previous) model being referred to is the MX5000. http://panasonic.jp/dvc/DIGICAM/gs100k/kinou.html

July 4th, 2003, 04:40 PM	#39
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Man, why can't Panasonic "speak in tongue?" They do, afterall, flog their cams worldwide.

July 4th, 2003, 04:51 PM	#40
Allan Rejoso Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 569	So it appears to me that while the PAL 500 does not have any vertical resolution loss, that is not the case for the NTSC 5000. Each GS100 CCD has the same number of pixels as that of 5000. 800K total/640K effective for video/ 700k effective for stills. From the Japanese website and manual, Pany used the following phrase to describe pro-cinema mode "...30 frames per second progressive recording with cinelike gamma ......during playback, each progressively recorded frame is resolved into 2 interlaced frames..." note that they didn't use the term "scan."

July 4th, 2003, 09:34 PM	#41
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	sounds like an advanced form of frame mode.... cinelike gamma... hmmm... methinks time to save for this one as a second cam to the DVX....

July 4th, 2003, 09:49 PM	#42
Patricia Kim Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Posts: 453	Check out rumors at camcorderinfo.com. It appears that the major digicam makers in Japan have signed on to accepting JVC's HD standard. If so, what's been dissed up to now as a rumor about an MX7000 that is HD capable may be true. I checked out the site where the rumor popped up and agreed that it sounded as though it was a mix-up re the GS-100, especially since the photos on the site are of the 100. However, since Panasonic is said to have signed on to the HD standard, I am beginning to think the rumor may be more than that. Why buy in unless you are ready to move, especially with the JVC already on the market. In which case, the GS-100 will be old hat in a few months, if not sooner. (Not sorry I bought it, though. I think it does great indoors in simple point and shoot mode; I believe it will capture spontaneity at indoor events in exactly the way I want.)

July 4th, 2003, 10:33 PM	#43
Tommy Haupfear Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 1,415	I wonder if the High Definition banner on the link below had anything to do with the Chukmeister's zany idea of a HD cam? I pulled it directly from Panasonic's website. High Definition Technology? http://panasonic.jp/dvc/DIGICAM/gs100k/gashitsu.html

July 5th, 2003, 01:30 AM	#44
Allan Rejoso Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 569	"High Definition Technology" LOL. One point Japanese to avoid misunderstanding Japanese sites. HD as the rest of the world understand is called "Hi-Vision" in Japan. So what we have here are Hi-Vision Terebi (TV) Hi-Vision Projection Terebi Hi-Vision Ekisho (LCD) Terebi Hi-Vision Plasma Terebi Hi-Vision Movie (Camera) Hi-Vision Recorder BTW, when the Japanese say Hi-Vision Terebi, they don't mean HD-Ready TV.. They call that Progressive Terebi instead. Regards

July 5th, 2003, 01:38 AM	#45
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Thanks for the info, Allan; I had no idea!