HMC70 vs HMC80 Worth it???

Randy Johnson · February 1st, 2011, 06:24 PM

Id like to hear a comparison between the AG-HMC 80 & the 150 because I think im going back to shoulder mount. If for $650 the rig brought everything that a shoulder mount camera offered id buy but even though it helps its still not the same. Sony has a new shoulder mount the VCT-SP2BP id like to see Panasonic make a custom shoulder mount for the AG-HMC 150 if they did it right id bite.

Chris Harding · February 1st, 2011, 09:56 PM

Hi Randy

Apparently the 150 has better low light performance due to the 1/3" chips against the 1/4" chips but both the 40 and the 80 have a sharper image than the 150!!!

While I'm shooting weddings I really do like outside controls on my camera so if I need to switch settings I don't have to stop and fool around with touch screens and menus (often sub menus too!!) I can usually do any changes I need on the HMC72 (the 80 will be the same) without having to stop filming or even take the camera off my shoulder as the joystick buttons are outside...for me that's a BIG plus...I'm not really into all the scene files that the 150 has anyway.

Over on this side of the pond I can import either camera and the 80 is currently $AUS2620 while the 152 is $3880 ... if you add the essential MultiDV Pro rig at an extra $650 then the difference becomes quite significant!!! It would cost me an extra $3170 alone if I got 2 x HMC152's and just ONE rig compared to buying 2 x HMC80's That's more than the cost of another camera for me!!!

As long as the 80 will give as good or better images than the 70, then for me it's worth it. However I cannot find anyone who can say "Yes, the image is better!!!" Panasonic haven't changed the audio side and for me it works really well!!! I also like the manual iris on the 80!!! Often I have weddings where back lighting is strong so being able to open the iris manually during filming is great

Chris

Jan Crittenden Livingston · February 4th, 2011, 08:19 AM

As long as the 80 will give as good or better images than the 70, then for me it's worth it. However I cannot find anyone who can say "Yes, the image is better!!!" Panasonic haven't changed the audio side and for me it works really well!!! I also like the manual iris on the 80!!!

Actually the HMC80 is a much better camera than the 70. Better chip set, better codec, has PH Mode, Better VF/LCD. More manual controls on the iris, focus and zoom. Does 1080i/24P/30P, 720/60P/24P and 30P. It also can record in 480 Standard Def. The 50Hz version would do 576. Here is the 60Hz brochure, but put in the 50Hz substitutions and I think you can get the gist. It really is a very nice camera that just flatly runs rings around the HMC70. http://www.panasonic.com/business/pr...f/AG-HMC80.pdf

Best regards,

Jan

Chris Harding · February 4th, 2011, 05:42 PM

Thanks Jan

Nothing like getting information directly from Panasonic. Really appreciated!!!

I will order one for now after the weekend and then get another and pop the HMC72's on eBay so some lucky local videographer can continue using them.

Chris

Adam Haro · February 4th, 2011, 06:29 PM

I want to thank you too Jan for the info. How do the 70 and 80 compare in low light?

Chris Harding · February 7th, 2011, 07:29 AM

Hi Adam

I'll tell you at the weekend!! I have ordered a HMC80 so I can do some comparisons between the 70 and 80 and give you my opinions ...I did look at some video of the HMC40 in low light and it gives a pretty good image even at 24db gain (the 70 only has 18db max)

A physical comparison is a lot better than guessing so I should have the cam this week so I can shoot in the same conditions and see how they compare. I really needed the 80 for the great new iris control feature on the barrel and also the fact that I can shoot for my Realty clients in 576i without having to wait for the computer to transcode the 70's AVCHD down to AVI ..that will save me at least an hour in production time!!

If you and Randy have any questions or need any tests, just let me know

Chris

Chris Harding · February 11th, 2011, 06:29 PM

Hi Guys

I have a wedding rehearsal on Sunday here so I will take my older HMC72 and the new HMC82 with me and shoot some comparative footage. I suspect the 82 will be a lot better.

What I like on initial inspection :

The camera looks impressive!!! Compared to the HMC70 the controls look like a 747's flight deck... I love the fact that you have external controls...manual iris will be a huge advantage!! Side by side the 70 looks awfully plain and bland now!!!

What I didn't like on initial inspection :

What really is disappointing is that Panasonic have removed the XLR attenuation switches and used them for the phantom power...shucks...that is a big pity!!!! It's so useful to be able to switch in the attentuator when a wedding reception gets loud!!!!! Now I will need to fiddle on my Rode mic with tiny dipswitches to attenuate the mic!! (Jan????? any idea why they took the switches out?????)

I must admit that I didn't like the fact that you cannot grab a still in camera mode!! I guess I can live with it but it's something extra to do!! With the 70 in Rec/Pause you can take your stills but on the 80's you need to hold the mode button in to switch over to Photo Mode.

Ouch!! There doesn't seem to be any assignable "beeps" when you stop and start the 80 now...it looks like the "beep sound" is reserved only for when you battery or card is running out. (Any comments from Jan at Panasonic?????)

All in all I guess I will get used to the things I am used to!!! It IS a great looking camera...I'm sure the footage will be great too!!!

More after the weekend

Chris

Chris Harding · February 13th, 2011, 03:42 AM

Hi All

As promised some quick comments "from the trenches" on using the HMC80..my wife shot the same footage with the HMC70 as a comparison.

Balance : The 80 (mine is an 82 cos it's PAL) is WAY better ...it seems the weight has shifted backwards so there is not so much forward weight on the right wrist and elbow...that's good news!!!
EVF : Much better than the HMC70 EVF ...the 70 (and 150) seem to be looking into a black box with the picture way down the end..the HMC80 is awesome...it's like the EVF is right there (which it is!!!) I must admit that some of the display data is distracting!!! I really don't need to know where the zoom is or what distance the focus is at ... it would be nice to have a little less on the screen (haven't been thru the entire manual yet to see if those can be turned off or not)

Controls : All are much the same as the 70 and are easy to use. Be careful with the iris adjust wheel..you can easily get to a stage where you aren't sure where you are and end up with poor exposure...I haven't quite figured if there is a way to reset the iris back to fully auto!!!

Footage : Brilliant!!! The 72 footage looks a bit muddy compared to the 82!!! The image is VERY sharp!!!
I shot most in 1080i so it would be fair to the 72 ... I did try the 1080 25p and images seemed to be pixelated???? So did the 720 50p footage!!! However I did mix format on the same card so that might have been the problem??? I also transcoded all MTS files in Upshift to MPEG2 at 50mbs and made all the footage progressive so the 25P and 50p that were already non interlaced might have been messed up???
When I switched to 25P the actually EVF had a considerable lag as you pan with the camera.

CMOS Pan Issues : I was quite delighted...if you pan intelligently...eg: swing around to a new subject there is no image breakup in PH mode at all...normal pans won't be an issue at all!!! I think the sensors and processing have come a long way since the issues first raised with Caqnon HV20 owners!! There doesn't seem to be any "jello effect" with normal on-shoulder shooting.

Audio : Despite the lack of attenuation switches that the 72's have..it handles my Azden output beautifully!! Then again the 70's audio was good anyway!!!!

Conclusion : I have one and the next will be ordered next week and I'll dispose of my HMC72's to offset the cost. Well worth the price and a great camera.

Anyone with any specific questions just let me know.

Chris

Mike Beckett · February 13th, 2011, 07:56 AM

Chris,

Thanks for the feedback, it is good to hear first hand about how the cam handles.

The pictures should be superb; it is the same gubbins inside it as my HMC41, which really is remarkable for the price. It's great to be able to use the gain and not be too worried by it, only the pixel-peepers amongst us will really notice any issues.

The footage shouldn't be pixelated, and it should matter if you mix it on the same card. How were you playing it back? Some footage doesn't play back well natively in media player software but it OK once it is transcoded and/or edited.

I'm lucky that I can play back most of the MTS files with no worries in VLC player, but it takes a fast computer.

For the viewfinder, it looks like you get the HMC41's 2.7" screen in a viewfinder assembly - so it should be good.

At least the HMC80/81/82 is a better-looking camera. The HMC7x was a bit of a monster. I just wish Panasonic could make the cameras look a bit nicer. Don't get me wrong, I love mine, I just wish it looked like it was from 2010 and not 1990.

Chris Harding · February 13th, 2011, 08:19 AM

Hey Mike

All my previous cams shot interlaced only.. the 720 50p wasn't too bad but I found that just panning the camera in 1080 25P mode gave me heaps of jerky display in the EVF.

On the 41, can you turn off any of the OSD displays..the 82 seems to have so much stuff on screen that I don't really need to see (eg: do I really want to know that I am zoomed X%?????)

Another silly question : My 72's can be set so the camera does a beep when you hit record and a double beep when you stop...it's a minor issue but it's reassuring to know that you have stopped/started recording without looking at the EVF!! Has the 41 got the same setup or are there function menus that I haven't found yet.

Dunno if the 41 has a manual iris wheel?? On the 82 you can actually "play" with it even in auto but I haven't yet discovered how to get back to full auto iris!!!

Chris

Mike Beckett · February 13th, 2011, 11:50 AM

Hi Chris,

On the 41, on the "SW & DISP" menu, you can turn off:

- Lens Status (to hide zoom & focus details)
- Level Meter (the audio levels)
- Card & Battery status
- Guides (the 4:3 or safe area frames)
- Other display (er, other stuff I'm not sure of!)

I like all the "junk" in the screen, I suppose I was used to it. Only thing I really miss is not having the "rule of thirds" grid display for the LCD or viewfinder, I miss it. The eaveform monitor is pretty cool.

We have manual iris on the "little bruv" as well, although it is a combined Iris/gain wheel.

On the HMC41, the beep can be turned on via the "other" menu if you like it. I don't know if it was on by default, but if it was on, I must've turned it off straight away!

Chris Harding · February 13th, 2011, 06:37 PM

Thanks Mike

My "beep" is turned on and the monitor volume is high but it still doeasn't beep when I start and stop????

Thanks for the menu advice.... Hmmm maybe more junk on the screen is a good idea?? but I wonder if you would spot that the AF is focussing on a tree just behind the couple you are filming rather than their faces??? Besides I have turned on face detection...does that work at all???????

Shucks I missed the thirds grid being missing...yeah, I found it really useful for levelling the bowl on the tripod at weddings just line up the bottom grid line with anything horizontal and you are done.

I'm currently half way with my "changeover" ..I have one HMC82 and still have two HMC72's (gotta keep working) I'll probably use the 72's at my wedding on Saturday and then juggle putting both 72's on ebay and ordering a second 82!!!

Chris

Randy Johnson · February 15th, 2011, 04:17 PM

great..now I want one:) well I have to wait until summer. Even though its not as good in low light( at least without gaining up more) I think its the best camera for me being shoulder mount with anton bauer mounts and all.

February 4th, 2011, 08:19 AM	#18
Jan Crittenden Livingston Panasonic Broadcast Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Secaucus, NJ 07094 Posts: 271	As long as the 80 will give as good or better images than the 70, then for me it's worth it. However I cannot find anyone who can say "Yes, the image is better!!!" Panasonic haven't changed the audio side and for me it works really well!!! I also like the manual iris on the 80!!! Actually the HMC80 is a much better camera than the 70. Better chip set, better codec, has PH Mode, Better VF/LCD. More manual controls on the iris, focus and zoom. Does 1080i/24P/30P, 720/60P/24P and 30P. It also can record in 480 Standard Def. The 50Hz version would do 576. Here is the 60Hz brochure, but put in the 50Hz substitutions and I think you can get the gist. It really is a very nice camera that just flatly runs rings around the HMC70. http://www.panasonic.com/business/pr...f/AG-HMC80.pdf Best regards, Jan __________________ Jan Crittenden Livingston Panasonic Solutions Company, Product Manager for 3D and Handheld Cameras

February 13th, 2011, 11:50 AM	#26
Mike Beckett Trustee Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Antrim, Northern Ireland Posts: 1,569	Hi Chris, On the 41, on the "SW & DISP" menu, you can turn off: - Lens Status (to hide zoom & focus details) - Level Meter (the audio levels) - Card & Battery status - Guides (the 4:3 or safe area frames) - Other display (er, other stuff I'm not sure of!) I like all the "junk" in the screen, I suppose I was used to it. Only thing I really miss is not having the "rule of thirds" grid display for the LCD or viewfinder, I miss it. The eaveform monitor is pretty cool. We have manual iris on the "little bruv" as well, although it is a combined Iris/gain wheel. On the HMC41, the beep can be turned on via the "other" menu if you like it. I don't know if it was on by default, but if it was on, I must've turned it off straight away! Last edited by Mike Beckett; February 13th, 2011 at 12:30 PM.

February 1st, 2011, 06:24 PM	#16
Randy Johnson Trustee Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Newark, Delaware Posts: 1,067	Id like to hear a comparison between the AG-HMC 80 & the 150 because I think im going back to shoulder mount. If for $650 the rig brought everything that a shoulder mount camera offered id buy but even though it helps its still not the same. Sony has a new shoulder mount the VCT-SP2BP id like to see Panasonic make a custom shoulder mount for the AG-HMC 150 if they did it right id bite.

February 1st, 2011, 09:56 PM	#17
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Hi Randy Apparently the 150 has better low light performance due to the 1/3" chips against the 1/4" chips but both the 40 and the 80 have a sharper image than the 150!!! While I'm shooting weddings I really do like outside controls on my camera so if I need to switch settings I don't have to stop and fool around with touch screens and menus (often sub menus too!!) I can usually do any changes I need on the HMC72 (the 80 will be the same) without having to stop filming or even take the camera off my shoulder as the joystick buttons are outside...for me that's a BIG plus...I'm not really into all the scene files that the 150 has anyway. Over on this side of the pond I can import either camera and the 80 is currently $AUS2620 while the 152 is $3880 ... if you add the essential MultiDV Pro rig at an extra $650 then the difference becomes quite significant!!! It would cost me an extra $3170 alone if I got 2 x HMC152's and just ONE rig compared to buying 2 x HMC80's That's more than the cost of another camera for me!!! As long as the 80 will give as good or better images than the 70, then for me it's worth it. However I cannot find anyone who can say "Yes, the image is better!!!" Panasonic haven't changed the audio side and for me it works really well!!! I also like the manual iris on the 80!!! Often I have weddings where back lighting is strong so being able to open the iris manually during filming is great Chris

February 4th, 2011, 05:42 PM	#19
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Thanks Jan Nothing like getting information directly from Panasonic. Really appreciated!!! I will order one for now after the weekend and then get another and pop the HMC72's on eBay so some lucky local videographer can continue using them. Chris

February 4th, 2011, 06:29 PM	#20
Adam Haro Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Fresno, CA Posts: 171	I want to thank you too Jan for the info. How do the 70 and 80 compare in low light?

February 7th, 2011, 07:29 AM	#21
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Hi Adam I'll tell you at the weekend!! I have ordered a HMC80 so I can do some comparisons between the 70 and 80 and give you my opinions ...I did look at some video of the HMC40 in low light and it gives a pretty good image even at 24db gain (the 70 only has 18db max) A physical comparison is a lot better than guessing so I should have the cam this week so I can shoot in the same conditions and see how they compare. I really needed the 80 for the great new iris control feature on the barrel and also the fact that I can shoot for my Realty clients in 576i without having to wait for the computer to transcode the 70's AVCHD down to AVI ..that will save me at least an hour in production time!! If you and Randy have any questions or need any tests, just let me know Chris

February 11th, 2011, 06:29 PM	#22
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Hi Guys I have a wedding rehearsal on Sunday here so I will take my older HMC72 and the new HMC82 with me and shoot some comparative footage. I suspect the 82 will be a lot better. What I like on initial inspection : The camera looks impressive!!! Compared to the HMC70 the controls look like a 747's flight deck... I love the fact that you have external controls...manual iris will be a huge advantage!! Side by side the 70 looks awfully plain and bland now!!! What I didn't like on initial inspection : What really is disappointing is that Panasonic have removed the XLR attenuation switches and used them for the phantom power...shucks...that is a big pity!!!! It's so useful to be able to switch in the attentuator when a wedding reception gets loud!!!!! Now I will need to fiddle on my Rode mic with tiny dipswitches to attenuate the mic!! (Jan????? any idea why they took the switches out?????) I must admit that I didn't like the fact that you cannot grab a still in camera mode!! I guess I can live with it but it's something extra to do!! With the 70 in Rec/Pause you can take your stills but on the 80's you need to hold the mode button in to switch over to Photo Mode. Ouch!! There doesn't seem to be any assignable "beeps" when you stop and start the 80 now...it looks like the "beep sound" is reserved only for when you battery or card is running out. (Any comments from Jan at Panasonic?????) All in all I guess I will get used to the things I am used to!!! It IS a great looking camera...I'm sure the footage will be great too!!! More after the weekend Chris

February 13th, 2011, 03:42 AM	#23
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Hi All As promised some quick comments "from the trenches" on using the HMC80..my wife shot the same footage with the HMC70 as a comparison. Balance : The 80 (mine is an 82 cos it's PAL) is WAY better ...it seems the weight has shifted backwards so there is not so much forward weight on the right wrist and elbow...that's good news!!! EVF : Much better than the HMC70 EVF ...the 70 (and 150) seem to be looking into a black box with the picture way down the end..the HMC80 is awesome...it's like the EVF is right there (which it is!!!) I must admit that some of the display data is distracting!!! I really don't need to know where the zoom is or what distance the focus is at ... it would be nice to have a little less on the screen (haven't been thru the entire manual yet to see if those can be turned off or not) Controls : All are much the same as the 70 and are easy to use. Be careful with the iris adjust wheel..you can easily get to a stage where you aren't sure where you are and end up with poor exposure...I haven't quite figured if there is a way to reset the iris back to fully auto!!! Footage : Brilliant!!! The 72 footage looks a bit muddy compared to the 82!!! The image is VERY sharp!!! I shot most in 1080i so it would be fair to the 72 ... I did try the 1080 25p and images seemed to be pixelated???? So did the 720 50p footage!!! However I did mix format on the same card so that might have been the problem??? I also transcoded all MTS files in Upshift to MPEG2 at 50mbs and made all the footage progressive so the 25P and 50p that were already non interlaced might have been messed up??? When I switched to 25P the actually EVF had a considerable lag as you pan with the camera. CMOS Pan Issues : I was quite delighted...if you pan intelligently...eg: swing around to a new subject there is no image breakup in PH mode at all...normal pans won't be an issue at all!!! I think the sensors and processing have come a long way since the issues first raised with Caqnon HV20 owners!! There doesn't seem to be any "jello effect" with normal on-shoulder shooting. Audio : Despite the lack of attenuation switches that the 72's have..it handles my Azden output beautifully!! Then again the 70's audio was good anyway!!!! Conclusion : I have one and the next will be ordered next week and I'll dispose of my HMC72's to offset the cost. Well worth the price and a great camera. Anyone with any specific questions just let me know. Chris

February 13th, 2011, 07:56 AM	#24
Mike Beckett Trustee Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Antrim, Northern Ireland Posts: 1,569	Chris, Thanks for the feedback, it is good to hear first hand about how the cam handles. The pictures should be superb; it is the same gubbins inside it as my HMC41, which really is remarkable for the price. It's great to be able to use the gain and not be too worried by it, only the pixel-peepers amongst us will really notice any issues. The footage shouldn't be pixelated, and it should matter if you mix it on the same card. How were you playing it back? Some footage doesn't play back well natively in media player software but it OK once it is transcoded and/or edited. I'm lucky that I can play back most of the MTS files with no worries in VLC player, but it takes a fast computer. For the viewfinder, it looks like you get the HMC41's 2.7" screen in a viewfinder assembly - so it should be good. At least the HMC80/81/82 is a better-looking camera. The HMC7x was a bit of a monster. I just wish Panasonic could make the cameras look a bit nicer. Don't get me wrong, I love mine, I just wish it looked like it was from 2010 and not 1990.

February 13th, 2011, 08:19 AM	#25
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Hey Mike All my previous cams shot interlaced only.. the 720 50p wasn't too bad but I found that just panning the camera in 1080 25P mode gave me heaps of jerky display in the EVF. On the 41, can you turn off any of the OSD displays..the 82 seems to have so much stuff on screen that I don't really need to see (eg: do I really want to know that I am zoomed X%?????) Another silly question : My 72's can be set so the camera does a beep when you hit record and a double beep when you stop...it's a minor issue but it's reassuring to know that you have stopped/started recording without looking at the EVF!! Has the 41 got the same setup or are there function menus that I haven't found yet. Dunno if the 41 has a manual iris wheel?? On the 82 you can actually "play" with it even in auto but I haven't yet discovered how to get back to full auto iris!!! Chris

February 13th, 2011, 06:37 PM	#27
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Thanks Mike My "beep" is turned on and the monitor volume is high but it still doeasn't beep when I start and stop???? Thanks for the menu advice.... Hmmm maybe more junk on the screen is a good idea?? but I wonder if you would spot that the AF is focussing on a tree just behind the couple you are filming rather than their faces??? Besides I have turned on face detection...does that work at all??????? Shucks I missed the thirds grid being missing...yeah, I found it really useful for levelling the bowl on the tripod at weddings just line up the bottom grid line with anything horizontal and you are done. I'm currently half way with my "changeover" ..I have one HMC82 and still have two HMC72's (gotta keep working) I'll probably use the 72's at my wedding on Saturday and then juggle putting both 72's on ebay and ordering a second 82!!! Chris

February 15th, 2011, 04:17 PM	#28
Randy Johnson Trustee Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Newark, Delaware Posts: 1,067	great..now I want one:) well I have to wait until summer. Even though its not as good in low light( at least without gaining up more) I think its the best camera for me being shoulder mount with anton bauer mounts and all.