Who's getting an HMC80?

Chris Harding · April 20th, 2010, 05:39 AM

Hi Ian

My reaction exactly!!! I did a wedding on Saturday on the beach with a LOT of sky in the background which, of course, means opening the iris and on the HMC72 that means the menu etc etc !!

What I REALLY like is the iris thumbwheel on the lens barrel... instant adjustment if conditions change and so easy too!!!

We will only get it around Christmas but my HMC72's are only 9 months old so they will still have a decent resale value to offset the cost of the HMC80's (Our's here will be 82's as we are PAL)

Chris

Chris Hurd · April 20th, 2010, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris McMahon

Why wouldn't it be able to do 480p60 if it can do 720p60?

Because the only standard definition video it has is the normal DV format, which is 480i60 / 480p30 / 480p24.

I have the same preliminary flier as Bob, and I think he's right, the 480p60 it states is most likely a typo. According to Panasonic's own press release (which is more readily correctable since it's online): "In standard definition DV, the camcorder records 480/60i, 480/30p, 480/24p."

From http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...82010103536709

Hope this helps,

Eliot Goshman · May 2nd, 2010, 07:26 AM

The picture quality of the Panasonic TM700 consumer camcorder blew me away with their new 1080/60p mode @ 28Mbps, so I was hoping they would use it on this new cam too....but no such luck.

Andrew Kiu · July 10th, 2010, 07:22 AM

Anyone had actual HMC80/82 (PAL) Hands-on Review? I currently own HMC72 (PAL Version) & very interested to get HMC82 (PAL) version, the only concern me is the Flip-up LCD Viewfinder, question is what if i mount cam in higher position, turn the viewfinder downward with open cap, will viewfinder cap Hold it while LCD facing downward or will opened viewfinder hold it or Fall down or close it while the viewfinder in downward position?

appreciate if anyone from Panasonic can clear this for me... :)

Bob Diaz · July 10th, 2010, 04:38 PM

Andrew,

It's a bit too early for anyone to be able to do a hands on review of the camera, it's just not out yet. However, from what I saw and heard at NAB, I can say that the video performance and image quality will match the HMC-40 exactly. One of the engineers from Japan who has worked on both the HMC40 and the upcoming HMC80 said that it's the same lens and image sensors for both cameras.

The larger size of the HMC80 does allow the camera to have more room for menu buttons and additional controls.

As for the viewfinder, the engineer said that she was working on improving the flip up magnifier so that it would be more solid. In going through all the photos I took, I'm sorry I didn't take a photo of the viewfinder mount flipped up. I've uploaded the three photos of the camera that I did take...

The current prototype at NAB was a bit to fragile, so they really didn't want us playing around with the viewfinder and breaking it. However DV Expo is coming up September 29 - 30 (LA, California), so I'll get another shot of seeing the camera in a few months and can report what I see. Until then, I know this doesn't answer you key question, but I hope it helps some....

Bob Diaz

Chris Harding · July 10th, 2010, 07:34 PM

Hi Andrew

The US launch is the end of September so don't hold your breath for a release this year!! We will probably get the 82 released close to, or just after Christmas. They are doing the viewfinder the same way as the DSLR guys are doing it with a loupe. All they have done is put the LCD inside the EVF housing and provided a eyecup to use it as an EVF or flip the eyecup out of the way to use it as an LCD.

On our HMC72's the flip out LCD is pretty flimsy anyway.. I suspect one could easily break it off!! I very seldom use my LCD!! The EVF is actually more useful and with the LCD out of the way on the HMC80, you can check/get to audio controls easier!!

Chris

Andrew Kiu · July 12th, 2010, 09:59 PM

Chris
thanks for the input..

most of the time, we use HMC72 for Multi-cam live-feed, that reason very particular and concern for LCD when mount on tripod above cameraman head level. if the eye-cap hardly hold it when in open position, might give hassle for viewing tru viewfinder...

Olakunle Olanrewaju · July 14th, 2010, 02:02 AM

I should be getting this once the PAL version comes out. I will be selling my 72 and probably add some money to pay for it.

Chris Harding · July 14th, 2010, 07:26 AM

Hi Andrew

That's a very valid point!! I would suspect that they will have a spring in the hinge at least so the eyepiece will either be fully open or fully closed. I am suspecting that you will often need to tilt the whole EVF downwards to say 45 degrees below horizontal as the cam will be sorta 6' or 7' above the operator. As long as the hood has a spring clip it should still stay open. If the camera is going to be static on a tripod then you could also look at adding a 7" LCD monitor to a bracket on the tripod (they are under $50!!) which will be a lot easily that trying to look upwards at a tiny EVF and get a stiff neck!!! If I was running high angle cams I would most definately organise an LCD on the tripod somewhere so I could look straight ahead rather than upward.

Chris

Paul Mason · July 29th, 2010, 04:04 PM

Hi Chris

Just as a matter of interest; how much extra would you be prepared to pay for a hmc 80? Realistically, with the 80; all you'd be getting is some better manual functionality (lens rings etc) over the 70. Will the image quality be that much better? I'm not so sure whether the improvement will be significant enough to warrant a much bigger price tag. What a shame that the hmc 150 isn't shoulder-mounted at the same price point...

Chris Harding · July 29th, 2010, 07:09 PM

Hi Paul

Not really that much actually!!!! I very much doubt whether the average viewer will be able to spot the difference and I'm pretty happy with the 72's at the moment. I do like the idea of being able to dial up an iris setting manually... that would be nice. I'm still a little hesitant about CMOS too!! I guess we will have to see what the entry price is???

Oh yes!! A shoulder-mount HMC150 would be great!! I might also look at the 150 and put it on a shoulder mount rig!!!

Chris

Paul Mason · July 29th, 2010, 10:32 PM

Hi Chris

Thanks Chris. On another note, the TM700 would be nice on the shoulder (for only $1400 Aussie!). The little bugger does 1080 50p (Pal) at 28mbps. Presumably, the next mode down on the 700 would be 50i (at 17 mbps?). Question: would that mode produce a better image (or equal to) than the equivalent 50i on the hmc 72? The reason I ask is because the rate for the 72 is 13mbps...

Your thoughts?

John Wiley · July 30th, 2010, 12:01 AM

I wouldn't underestimate the quality difference over the HMC70 - things have come a long way since it's inception.

I've not seen footage from the HMC70, but I have seen footage from the the first Panasonic (& worlds first?) AVCHD camera, the SD1, which I believe the HMC70 is based off. My first impression when I looked closely at that footage was that the compression was not as good as HDV, which was itself pretty terrible. Then again I may have been biased because I was afraid of the new technology! These days, with increased bitrates and more mature technology, AVCHD smokes HDV. So I think you'll notice that difference quite a bit if you upgrade.

The CMOS sensors might be a bit frustrating, but they'll probably give you a bit more low light performace as well so it's a pretty fair trade-off I think.

I'm due for a camera upgrade somtime around the end of this year/start of next year. I'm hoping to get the AX-2000 or NX5 but if I can't stretch that far this will be my next choice.

Chris Harding · July 30th, 2010, 02:30 AM

I guess if it's a new model it SHOULD be better but the price might make it un-economical???

You have to remember that although I shoot HD I still transcode to SD..brides on this side of the country don't even know how to spell BluRay!!! All my work is output on DVD and seriously, is the average wedding couple going to be able to say ...our wedding was shot at 28mbs look at the difference!!! 99.9% of them ONLY look at the content!! so whether you capture at 6mbs or 60mbs I doubt whether they would really know!!!

My wife was watching TV the other night and flipping thru channels and settled on a series which was broadcast in HD... I mentioned it to her and she said that she really couldn't see much difference!!! I wonder if the average householder could spot the difference between SD and HD if they were not told in big titles that this is an HD broadcast????

For me it all about camera convenience and if a new model has controls or features that do a better job or make life easier for me then I will look at it!! I think we more than often get so wrapped up with technical specifications that we forget that we should be shooting for content!!!

I certainly wouldn't spend say, an extra $2K, on a camera because it has a higher bitrate...only if it makes my job easier. I used to shoot weddings about 4 seasons ago with Panasonics MD10000 (pal version of the DVC20) It only shot in 4:3 and had 1/6" chips and brides did nothing but rave about "how clear the video is!!!" I only upgraded because I need a 16:9 camera and wanted a shoulder-mount too...I didn't really need HD but I must admit shooting to card is neat and easy!!!

Seriously I have watched some of my 4:3 footage and in terms of resolution on a standard 42" TV the average viewer wouldn't know the difference.

Of course, I will still look at the new HMC82's when they arrive!!

Chris

Paul Mason · July 30th, 2010, 06:51 PM

All very good points.

Unfortunately, perception is still relevant with a lot of potential clients; so a shoulder mounted camera is desireable in most instances (sad, but true). Similarly, most of the content will only be streaming on client's websites. Nevertheless, it would be nice to shoot content at the highest possible quality in the first instance; in case it needed to be used for something other than web streaming. The hmc 70 would appear to be the most cost-effective compromise at the moment; but I would welcome your comments.

What other shoulder mounted cameras are currently available in the same price range as a hmc 70?

May 2nd, 2010, 07:26 AM	#18
Eliot Goshman New Boot Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Deer Park, New York Posts: 22	What, no 1080/60p?? The picture quality of the Panasonic TM700 consumer camcorder blew me away with their new 1080/60p mode @ 28Mbps, so I was hoping they would use it on this new cam too....but no such luck.

July 10th, 2010, 07:22 AM	#19
Andrew Kiu Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: BRUNEI Posts: 108	Actual Hands-ON Review? Anyone had actual HMC80/82 (PAL) Hands-on Review? I currently own HMC72 (PAL Version) & very interested to get HMC82 (PAL) version, the only concern me is the Flip-up LCD Viewfinder, question is what if i mount cam in higher position, turn the viewfinder downward with open cap, will viewfinder cap Hold it while LCD facing downward or will opened viewfinder hold it or Fall down or close it while the viewfinder in downward position? appreciate if anyone from Panasonic can clear this for me... :) __________________ Andrew Last edited by Andrew Kiu; July 10th, 2010 at 08:36 AM.

July 10th, 2010, 04:38 PM	#20
Bob Diaz Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: LA, California Posts: 170	Andrew, It's a bit too early for anyone to be able to do a hands on review of the camera, it's just not out yet. However, from what I saw and heard at NAB, I can say that the video performance and image quality will match the HMC-40 exactly. One of the engineers from Japan who has worked on both the HMC40 and the upcoming HMC80 said that it's the same lens and image sensors for both cameras. The larger size of the HMC80 does allow the camera to have more room for menu buttons and additional controls. As for the viewfinder, the engineer said that she was working on improving the flip up magnifier so that it would be more solid. In going through all the photos I took, I'm sorry I didn't take a photo of the viewfinder mount flipped up. I've uploaded the three photos of the camera that I did take... The current prototype at NAB was a bit to fragile, so they really didn't want us playing around with the viewfinder and breaking it. However DV Expo is coming up September 29 - 30 (LA, California), so I'll get another shot of seeing the camera in a few months and can report what I see. Until then, I know this doesn't answer you key question, but I hope it helps some.... Bob Diaz Attached Thumbnails

July 12th, 2010, 09:59 PM	#22
Andrew Kiu Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: BRUNEI Posts: 108	Chris thanks for the input.. most of the time, we use HMC72 for Multi-cam live-feed, that reason very particular and concern for LCD when mount on tripod above cameraman head level. if the eye-cap hardly hold it when in open position, might give hassle for viewing tru viewfinder... __________________ Andrew

July 29th, 2010, 04:04 PM	#25
Paul Mason New Boot Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: New Zealand Posts: 12	hmc 70 vs hmc 80 Hi Chris Just as a matter of interest; how much extra would you be prepared to pay for a hmc 80? Realistically, with the 80; all you'd be getting is some better manual functionality (lens rings etc) over the 70. Will the image quality be that much better? I'm not so sure whether the improvement will be significant enough to warrant a much bigger price tag. What a shame that the hmc 150 isn't shoulder-mounted at the same price point...

April 20th, 2010, 05:39 AM	#16
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Hi Ian My reaction exactly!!! I did a wedding on Saturday on the beach with a LOT of sky in the background which, of course, means opening the iris and on the HMC72 that means the menu etc etc !! What I REALLY like is the iris thumbwheel on the lens barrel... instant adjustment if conditions change and so easy too!!! We will only get it around Christmas but my HMC72's are only 9 months old so they will still have a decent resale value to offset the cost of the HMC80's (Our's here will be 82's as we are PAL) Chris

July 10th, 2010, 07:34 PM	#21
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Hi Andrew The US launch is the end of September so don't hold your breath for a release this year!! We will probably get the 82 released close to, or just after Christmas. They are doing the viewfinder the same way as the DSLR guys are doing it with a loupe. All they have done is put the LCD inside the EVF housing and provided a eyecup to use it as an EVF or flip the eyecup out of the way to use it as an LCD. On our HMC72's the flip out LCD is pretty flimsy anyway.. I suspect one could easily break it off!! I very seldom use my LCD!! The EVF is actually more useful and with the LCD out of the way on the HMC80, you can check/get to audio controls easier!! Chris

July 14th, 2010, 02:02 AM	#23
Olakunle Olanrewaju Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Ibadan, Nigeria Posts: 103	I should be getting this once the PAL version comes out. I will be selling my 72 and probably add some money to pay for it.

July 14th, 2010, 07:26 AM	#24
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Hi Andrew That's a very valid point!! I would suspect that they will have a spring in the hinge at least so the eyepiece will either be fully open or fully closed. I am suspecting that you will often need to tilt the whole EVF downwards to say 45 degrees below horizontal as the cam will be sorta 6' or 7' above the operator. As long as the hood has a spring clip it should still stay open. If the camera is going to be static on a tripod then you could also look at adding a 7" LCD monitor to a bracket on the tripod (they are under $50!!) which will be a lot easily that trying to look upwards at a tiny EVF and get a stiff neck!!! If I was running high angle cams I would most definately organise an LCD on the tripod somewhere so I could look straight ahead rather than upward. Chris

July 29th, 2010, 07:09 PM	#26
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Hi Paul Not really that much actually!!!! I very much doubt whether the average viewer will be able to spot the difference and I'm pretty happy with the 72's at the moment. I do like the idea of being able to dial up an iris setting manually... that would be nice. I'm still a little hesitant about CMOS too!! I guess we will have to see what the entry price is??? Oh yes!! A shoulder-mount HMC150 would be great!! I might also look at the 150 and put it on a shoulder mount rig!!! Chris

July 29th, 2010, 10:32 PM	#27
Paul Mason New Boot Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: New Zealand Posts: 12	Tm700 Hi Chris Thanks Chris. On another note, the TM700 would be nice on the shoulder (for only $1400 Aussie!). The little bugger does 1080 50p (Pal) at 28mbps. Presumably, the next mode down on the 700 would be 50i (at 17 mbps?). Question: would that mode produce a better image (or equal to) than the equivalent 50i on the hmc 72? The reason I ask is because the rate for the 72 is 13mbps... Your thoughts?

July 30th, 2010, 12:01 AM	#28
John Wiley Trustee Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Byron Bay, Australia Posts: 1,155	I wouldn't underestimate the quality difference over the HMC70 - things have come a long way since it's inception. I've not seen footage from the HMC70, but I have seen footage from the the first Panasonic (& worlds first?) AVCHD camera, the SD1, which I believe the HMC70 is based off. My first impression when I looked closely at that footage was that the compression was not as good as HDV, which was itself pretty terrible. Then again I may have been biased because I was afraid of the new technology! These days, with increased bitrates and more mature technology, AVCHD smokes HDV. So I think you'll notice that difference quite a bit if you upgrade. The CMOS sensors might be a bit frustrating, but they'll probably give you a bit more low light performace as well so it's a pretty fair trade-off I think. I'm due for a camera upgrade somtime around the end of this year/start of next year. I'm hoping to get the AX-2000 or NX5 but if I can't stretch that far this will be my next choice.

July 30th, 2010, 02:30 AM	#29
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	I guess if it's a new model it SHOULD be better but the price might make it un-economical??? You have to remember that although I shoot HD I still transcode to SD..brides on this side of the country don't even know how to spell BluRay!!! All my work is output on DVD and seriously, is the average wedding couple going to be able to say ...our wedding was shot at 28mbs look at the difference!!! 99.9% of them ONLY look at the content!! so whether you capture at 6mbs or 60mbs I doubt whether they would really know!!! My wife was watching TV the other night and flipping thru channels and settled on a series which was broadcast in HD... I mentioned it to her and she said that she really couldn't see much difference!!! I wonder if the average householder could spot the difference between SD and HD if they were not told in big titles that this is an HD broadcast???? For me it all about camera convenience and if a new model has controls or features that do a better job or make life easier for me then I will look at it!! I think we more than often get so wrapped up with technical specifications that we forget that we should be shooting for content!!! I certainly wouldn't spend say, an extra $2K, on a camera because it has a higher bitrate...only if it makes my job easier. I used to shoot weddings about 4 seasons ago with Panasonics MD10000 (pal version of the DVC20) It only shot in 4:3 and had 1/6" chips and brides did nothing but rave about "how clear the video is!!!" I only upgraded because I need a 16:9 camera and wanted a shoulder-mount too...I didn't really need HD but I must admit shooting to card is neat and easy!!! Seriously I have watched some of my 4:3 footage and in terms of resolution on a standard 42" TV the average viewer wouldn't know the difference. Of course, I will still look at the new HMC82's when they arrive!! Chris

July 30th, 2010, 06:51 PM	#30
Paul Mason New Boot Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: New Zealand Posts: 12	All very good points. Unfortunately, perception is still relevant with a lot of potential clients; so a shoulder mounted camera is desireable in most instances (sad, but true). Similarly, most of the content will only be streaming on client's websites. Nevertheless, it would be nice to shoot content at the highest possible quality in the first instance; in case it needed to be used for something other than web streaming. The hmc 70 would appear to be the most cost-effective compromise at the moment; but I would welcome your comments. What other shoulder mounted cameras are currently available in the same price range as a hmc 70?