HMC 70 Pros & Cons in depth Users review

Chris Harding · November 30th, 2009, 05:07 PM

Hi Andrew

Great..You must be happy now??? Waiting until you carry it around a reception for 3 hours ...then it gets heavy!!!!

Shoot all footage in HF mode!! On a 16GB card you will get around 160 mins which is nearly 3 hours!!!!!! I use 8GB cards in each of my cameras and HF gives me 83 mins per card.

I also shoot Property Reports for Real Estate and the quality doesn't need to be high so I often shoot those in HN mode but rather shoot everything at the highest bitrate!!!!

The battery that comes with the camera does a pretty impressive 2 hour shift (120 mins!!!) However for some reason I just cannot find replacement 2640mah batteries only the 5800mah ones!!! If you locate a source for spare batteries, let us know!! (Generic batteries DON'T work in the HMC series...you need to get genuine Panny ones with the built-in microchip)

Give us your experiences once you have used the camera a bit????

Chris

Andrew Kiu · November 30th, 2009, 11:09 PM

Thanks Chris,
I wonder you ever try using mix recording mode like HF (13Mbps CBR) in beginning recording and follow by next recording with HE (6Mbps VBR) in same Card.

I very happy with the wide angle lens 0.7x (Wvw4307), Even while zooming to 12x still getting fast focusing without distortion and dark corner & top-up some weight in-front.

Chris Harding · December 1st, 2009, 06:45 AM

Hi Andrew
The HMC72 has a fairly low bitrate as it is compared to the HMC152 so I would really stick with HF mode only!! SDHC cards are so cheap now that it's hardly worth using a lower rate unless you need 32 hours continuous recording time !!! A 32GB card will give you nearly 6 hours of AVCHD video at 13mbs !! Why ever go lower????

I find the that standard lens which is 39mm equivalent at WA is all I need for weddings. Even with the bride and groom and 4 bridesmaids and 4 groomsmen either side I can still get them in comfortably from 5 metres away.

Enjoy the camera and make use of the great audio section!!! I dunno if yours came with shotgun mics like the USA model (mine didn't) so I run two Rode VideoMics on each camera's cold shoe.

Chris

Hans Ledel · December 4th, 2009, 12:14 PM

When this cam cam out, I more or less thought it was a joke I mean 13 Mbps
But when I had a look at Vimeo I was surprised at what this cam could produce.

Do a search for the HMC70/71 at Vimeo

Cheers

Hans

Chris Harding · December 4th, 2009, 05:05 PM

Hi Hans

Too many of us (and I am probably the worst!!) just love "specifications" and "technology" and sometimes we become so entangled in bitrates and technical aspects of cameras that we forget that it's the person behind the camera that really counts!!

To be perfectly honest I cannot tell the difference between AVCHD video shot at 6mbs and 13 mbs on the HMC72 and I very much doubt whether the average person would even see the difference!! The most important thing is content!! Give an idiot an HMC150 and let them shoot at the highest bit rate and the result will be poor, despite all the fancy specs!!!

I have shot footage on an ancient Panny DS30 (1 chip SD) and the result was pure magic because all the conditions were perfect, great content, great lighting and a great story!!!
I have also shot test footage with the HMC72 that looked like pure garbage as the light was poor, the weather was bad and the actual content was poor!!

However, forums need to thrive on technical issues so we love to talk about them and most of us males here like to have the biggest and the best too!!!

Chris

Hans Ledel · December 5th, 2009, 07:14 AM

Hi Chris

You are so right :-)

I wonder one thing.
If I understand everything right you shoot in HD and then down convert with some kind of software,right?

How does it look once converted to DV PAL 16:9 regarding colors and clarity compared to the original.

The reason I ask is that I´m following a project where they are rebuilding a place here in Sweden and the cam i´m using is the Sony SR11 and I´m editing in Final Cut Pro.

At first i thought that it would only be one version and that would be in HD, but i now understand that they also would like one version in SD (PAL 16:9) and when I down convert my HD material from FCP it does look pretty "sad"

In the coming spring i will buy a new computer and I have been thinking of going back to PC and use Edius NLE and maybe also buy a new cam, maybe a Panasonic.
Then i can use the software that comes with camera and also use my Sony software and do the down conversion since they only work on PC and do 2 versions

The project will go on to 2011/2012 so there is some time to do some changes

Cheers and greetings from Stockholm

Hans

Chris Harding · December 5th, 2009, 08:51 PM

Hi Hans

I actually did a fairly comprehensive test by shootage some varied footage of around 2 minutes in AVCHD. What I then did is as follows :

(1) Use the AVCHD files in Vegas 9 and render directly to PAL DVD Widescreen Template
(2) Transcode the AVCHD to HDV MPEG2 using VAAST's Upshift and then render as above
(3) Transcode directly to SD AVI with Panasonic's Transcoder and then then as above.

I compiled each of the MPEG2 videos sequentially onto a DVD and watched them VERY critically on a 42" HDTV. It was virtually impossible to tell the difference as far as colour saturation, contrast etc etc and the first method showed maybe a very small resolution difference. However remember I was LOOKING for a difference and was comparing 3 identical clips...in real life no-one would ever be able to tell the difference as they would have nothing to compare it with!!

Maybe try and do a test yourself and let us know what your opinion is????

Chris

Hans Ledel · December 6th, 2009, 03:10 AM

Hi Chris

I have tested to down convert from HD to SD PAL in every way possible on my Mac (iDVD, DVD studio, Compressor Mpeg Streamclip FCP Imovie) no matter what i do the result is always the same, to various degrees . A perfect clip in HD (colorful and crystal clear) will come out in SD washed
out and noisy and a bit dark.

So I thought it may be a good idea to see if someone used the program that came with camera that can down convert to SD directly would make any difference , and as I said the program that came with my Sony won´t work on MAC.

One thing I find very interesting is that you don´t seem to lose anything when it comes to
colors or contrast when you go from HD to SD on your PC, that´s were i have all the problems

I´m beginning to think that this might be a MAC problem with Quicktime

I have actually been looking for clips on Vimeo that was shoot with a HD cam and then uploaded as a SD clip and I have found a couple and they looked really good when it came to colors and contrast.

All of them was from a PC NLE

Cheers and Thanks

Hans

Chris Harding · December 6th, 2009, 04:13 AM

Hi Hans

It seems that the transcoders are geared for PC then??? I use the MainConcept one but that will ONLY work with Panasonic MTS files (a problem for your Sony!!)and this is again for PC only!!!

Check out the thread on the AVCHD forum..there is a guy there with posts about his AVCHD and his Mac..that may help you??? I think he was using Voltaic ????

Chris

Hans Ledel · December 6th, 2009, 05:35 AM

Hi Chris

I´ve tested that rout as well.

There seems to be a bigger problem going from HD to PAL compared to HD to NTSC

There has been a lot of discussions over at Apple forum on this and the consensus seems to be when going to PAL is to bump saturation and accept the rest.
I´m pretty sure it has to do with apple QT

So my next computer will probably a PC with Edius

Once again Thanks

Hans

November 30th, 2009, 11:09 PM	#17
Andrew Kiu Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: BRUNEI Posts: 108	Thanks Chris, I wonder you ever try using mix recording mode like HF (13Mbps CBR) in beginning recording and follow by next recording with HE (6Mbps VBR) in same Card. I very happy with the wide angle lens 0.7x (Wvw4307), Even while zooming to 12x still getting fast focusing without distortion and dark corner & top-up some weight in-front. __________________ Andrew

December 4th, 2009, 12:14 PM	#19
Hans Ledel Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Stockholm Sweden Posts: 184	When this cam cam out, I more or less thought it was a joke I mean 13 Mbps But when I had a look at Vimeo I was surprised at what this cam could produce. Do a search for the HMC70/71 at Vimeo Cheers Hans __________________ Remember, that English is my second language.

December 5th, 2009, 07:14 AM	#21
Hans Ledel Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Stockholm Sweden Posts: 184	Hi Chris You are so right :-) I wonder one thing. If I understand everything right you shoot in HD and then down convert with some kind of software,right? How does it look once converted to DV PAL 16:9 regarding colors and clarity compared to the original. The reason I ask is that I´m following a project where they are rebuilding a place here in Sweden and the cam i´m using is the Sony SR11 and I´m editing in Final Cut Pro. At first i thought that it would only be one version and that would be in HD, but i now understand that they also would like one version in SD (PAL 16:9) and when I down convert my HD material from FCP it does look pretty "sad" In the coming spring i will buy a new computer and I have been thinking of going back to PC and use Edius NLE and maybe also buy a new cam, maybe a Panasonic. Then i can use the software that comes with camera and also use my Sony software and do the down conversion since they only work on PC and do 2 versions The project will go on to 2011/2012 so there is some time to do some changes Cheers and greetings from Stockholm Hans __________________ Remember, that English is my second language.

December 6th, 2009, 03:10 AM	#23
Hans Ledel Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Stockholm Sweden Posts: 184	Hi Chris I have tested to down convert from HD to SD PAL in every way possible on my Mac (iDVD, DVD studio, Compressor Mpeg Streamclip FCP Imovie) no matter what i do the result is always the same, to various degrees . A perfect clip in HD (colorful and crystal clear) will come out in SD washed out and noisy and a bit dark. So I thought it may be a good idea to see if someone used the program that came with camera that can down convert to SD directly would make any difference , and as I said the program that came with my Sony won´t work on MAC. One thing I find very interesting is that you don´t seem to lose anything when it comes to colors or contrast when you go from HD to SD on your PC, that´s were i have all the problems I´m beginning to think that this might be a MAC problem with Quicktime I have actually been looking for clips on Vimeo that was shoot with a HD cam and then uploaded as a SD clip and I have found a couple and they looked really good when it came to colors and contrast. All of them was from a PC NLE Cheers and Thanks Hans __________________ Remember, that English is my second language.

December 6th, 2009, 05:35 AM	#25
Hans Ledel Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Stockholm Sweden Posts: 184	Hi Chris I´ve tested that rout as well. There seems to be a bigger problem going from HD to PAL compared to HD to NTSC There has been a lot of discussions over at Apple forum on this and the consensus seems to be when going to PAL is to bump saturation and accept the rest. I´m pretty sure it has to do with apple QT So my next computer will probably a PC with Edius Once again Thanks Hans __________________ Remember, that English is my second language.

November 30th, 2009, 05:07 PM	#16
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Hi Andrew Great..You must be happy now??? Waiting until you carry it around a reception for 3 hours ...then it gets heavy!!!! Shoot all footage in HF mode!! On a 16GB card you will get around 160 mins which is nearly 3 hours!!!!!! I use 8GB cards in each of my cameras and HF gives me 83 mins per card. I also shoot Property Reports for Real Estate and the quality doesn't need to be high so I often shoot those in HN mode but rather shoot everything at the highest bitrate!!!! The battery that comes with the camera does a pretty impressive 2 hour shift (120 mins!!!) However for some reason I just cannot find replacement 2640mah batteries only the 5800mah ones!!! If you locate a source for spare batteries, let us know!! (Generic batteries DON'T work in the HMC series...you need to get genuine Panny ones with the built-in microchip) Give us your experiences once you have used the camera a bit???? Chris

December 1st, 2009, 06:45 AM	#18
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Hi Andrew The HMC72 has a fairly low bitrate as it is compared to the HMC152 so I would really stick with HF mode only!! SDHC cards are so cheap now that it's hardly worth using a lower rate unless you need 32 hours continuous recording time !!! A 32GB card will give you nearly 6 hours of AVCHD video at 13mbs !! Why ever go lower???? I find the that standard lens which is 39mm equivalent at WA is all I need for weddings. Even with the bride and groom and 4 bridesmaids and 4 groomsmen either side I can still get them in comfortably from 5 metres away. Enjoy the camera and make use of the great audio section!!! I dunno if yours came with shotgun mics like the USA model (mine didn't) so I run two Rode VideoMics on each camera's cold shoe. Chris

December 4th, 2009, 05:05 PM	#20
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Hi Hans Too many of us (and I am probably the worst!!) just love "specifications" and "technology" and sometimes we become so entangled in bitrates and technical aspects of cameras that we forget that it's the person behind the camera that really counts!! To be perfectly honest I cannot tell the difference between AVCHD video shot at 6mbs and 13 mbs on the HMC72 and I very much doubt whether the average person would even see the difference!! The most important thing is content!! Give an idiot an HMC150 and let them shoot at the highest bit rate and the result will be poor, despite all the fancy specs!!! I have shot footage on an ancient Panny DS30 (1 chip SD) and the result was pure magic because all the conditions were perfect, great content, great lighting and a great story!!! I have also shot test footage with the HMC72 that looked like pure garbage as the light was poor, the weather was bad and the actual content was poor!! However, forums need to thrive on technical issues so we love to talk about them and most of us males here like to have the biggest and the best too!!! Chris

December 5th, 2009, 08:51 PM	#22
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Hi Hans I actually did a fairly comprehensive test by shootage some varied footage of around 2 minutes in AVCHD. What I then did is as follows : (1) Use the AVCHD files in Vegas 9 and render directly to PAL DVD Widescreen Template (2) Transcode the AVCHD to HDV MPEG2 using VAAST's Upshift and then render as above (3) Transcode directly to SD AVI with Panasonic's Transcoder and then then as above. I compiled each of the MPEG2 videos sequentially onto a DVD and watched them VERY critically on a 42" HDTV. It was virtually impossible to tell the difference as far as colour saturation, contrast etc etc and the first method showed maybe a very small resolution difference. However remember I was LOOKING for a difference and was comparing 3 identical clips...in real life no-one would ever be able to tell the difference as they would have nothing to compare it with!! Maybe try and do a test yourself and let us know what your opinion is???? Chris

December 6th, 2009, 04:13 AM	#24
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Hi Hans It seems that the transcoders are geared for PC then??? I use the MainConcept one but that will ONLY work with Panasonic MTS files (a problem for your Sony!!)and this is again for PC only!!! Check out the thread on the AVCHD forum..there is a guy there with posts about his AVCHD and his Mac..that may help you??? I think he was using Voltaic ???? Chris