HMC150 vs FX1

[Jeff Harper]

The break is a bit of a hassle, as I recall...but it's like everything else with AVCHD.

The hmc-150 is 5 (I'm guessing) years newer than than the FX1. Put the HMC 150 next to it's contemporary like the Z1 or FX1000 and the differences are still there, but there are many who prefer the FX1000 or Z1 (and vice versa, of course.)

I just received a wedding shot with the HMC150. I have to admit the church footage was so dark it almost seems unusable to me. Maybe the guy didn't know his camera, I don't know.

[David J. Payne]

Jeff the reason I was comparing with the old FX1's is thats what I'm used to using.
I'm sort of torn between the newer sony (FX1000 or Z5U) and the HMC100 but wanted to make 100% sure that if I did go for the Panny, I wouldnt get it and say 'whoa this low light performance is actually WORSE than what I'm used to...'

that would be a disaster...

I'm having a tough time finding a second hand HMC150. I thought this might be best to get used to it without spending too much on something i MAY hate and end up selling 4 weeks later...

[Jeff Harper]

My single biggest issue with the Panny is the LCD and the fact that the footage is AVCHD. Otherwise the cam can deliver some nice images.

BTW, there was a used FX1000 here in the classifieds for $2500...nice deal if the cam is in good shape.

[David J. Payne]

Jeff,

What don't you like about the LCD?

Although it seems demanding and on my GH1 I occasionally get horrible glitches on the final exported product what are your issues with AVCHD?

[Jeff Harper]

David, I edited my previous comment to be clearer.

I shoot lots of two and three cam projects...I don't have time to convert the footage. I also still deliver /shoot mostly SD widescreen, and the 150 has no SD option.

The view screen (I don't use viewfinder) really stinks (just my opinion) It looked terrible to me, and was small.

I defended the 150 for awhile, but all in all with the ridiculously horrible onboard mic (worst I've heard) I can't see it as viable for my purposes.

There is less grain with the 150 when gain is turned up, so that is a help.

I very much wanted to like the camera, but it just didn't work out.

Let me put it this way...if you have like your FX1, you'll love the FX1000. Compared to the FX1000 I ended up never wanting to see a HMC 150 again. Just my experience. Others will feel differently.

I also found it was too lightweight, and felt like a cheap plastic toy. It wasn't cheap, but felt like it. For handheld work it was impossible to keep smooth, as it didn't have enough weight.

If you buy a 150 and don't ever use the FX1000 or Z5, you'll be happy as you won't know any different.

[Robert Turchick]

I'll be a troublemaker and say the 150 was nice until I got into the dslr thing and then people started sending me ex1 footage to cut with the 150 and I realized that I needed to step it up a notch. (I like the EX1r and EX1 but like the XF300 better)

If you can save up a bit more, you could get into a used ex1 which puts you in a different league. The fact you can use SD cards in an adapter makes it affordable.
Just my 2 cents!

And the LCD on the 150 is terrible...in fact all the Panasonic cams I've used (200, 170, 40) have been less than adequate.

[Jeff Harper]

The 1/3" chips of the EX1 are nice, but for a comparable price the new Panasonic might be a better investment. I can't wait to hear about it when it hits.

1 1/3" chip. DSLR quality in a camcorder body

Panasonic AG-AF100 Micro 4/3 Pro HD Camcorder DEPOSIT :: Compact HD Cameras :: Cameras :: Equipment Sales :: Abel Cine Tech

[Robert Turchick]

Im guessing you meant 1/2" chips in the ex. Good call on the af100... Forgot about that one! I think with lenses though it's gonna be the price of a new EX1r or my Canon. (ok checked your links and it's a lot more with lenses!)
I saw a used ex1 with goodies for $4k on this very forum. That's a heck of a deal! Much better than $3k for the 150 and then investing in a monitor so you can actually see what your shooting! (sorry...rant over!)

[Tom Hardwick]

Whenever I've used the Panasonic 151 I've rather liked the side screen but have never liked the feeling of wibbly-wobbly fragility in the hinge. The image might be rather crude looking (I can literally count the dots) but it's a decent size and the 4:3 aspect ratio allows lots of the meta data to lie outside the 16:9 letter-boxed picture area. The font used for this data is bold enough for you to read as you're running with the camera to the next location.

Contrast this to my NX5's top screen. This is a physically smaller, far higher resolution screen. Great for Sock-Lupe users, but who on earth needs such hi-rez in a screen 2½" across? On top of that the screen is dark, pretty useless in sunlight, gets covered in fingerprints and the tiny font means you have to hold the cam rock steady and squint at the minuscule alphanumerics. The Z5 was never like this - what's happening, brother?

tom.

[David J. Payne]

damn... first negative points ive read about the HMC150 and now I'm back to square one (although i definitely appreciate your thoughts) The thing is the FX1000 is mini DV isnt it? I really want to go tapeless as I'm sick of drop outs and glitches.

This is why I looked at the Z5U as with the memory recording unit I could record to CF. However minute per GB when compared to the HMC150 means I'll be forever changing cards (as often as I used to change tape) so the SD card option really stood out for me.

Up until recently I was dead set on an AF101, however I'm worried about using the DSLR lenses and narrow DOF all the time. Especially when I pass the cam over to my less experienced operators.

I thought to myself, I have a 60d and a GH13 so why not just use those to get the DSLR type of footage when required and then get a couple of proper 'camcorders' to point and shoot.

I sort of sold myself on that 2x HMC150 and 1x DSLR over the shoulder for when required. Fair enough I may end up loving the DSLR footage so much that it becomes my main cam and I sell a HMC150.

However now I'm unsure on the 150. I'd love to hear some peoples opinions on other cameras up to about £3500 however I dont want to spend too much in case I end up going to DSLR after using it for a while and £3500 is too much for a 2nd cam.

I have quite a few lenses that would work well with the GH1 and indeed the AF101 but if I got an AF101 I'd then STILL need this 2nd more camcorder like camera... which I'd love you to suggest to me now!

Running out of time until the new wedding season :(

Important things for me:

- Good low light performance
- SD or SD & Tape
- decent internal mic
- 25p and ideally a 50p 720 or 1080 mode for slow mo.
- 2x XLR inputs
- 2 hot shoe's or a mic clamp and one hot shoe (to use external mic and wireless receiver)
- Would far prefer 3CCD instead of CMOS due to the rolling shutter flash thing (lots of flashes at weddings)

I'd love to hear your thoughts guys.

[Buba Kastorski]

Originally Posted by Robert Turchick

saw a used ex1 with goodies for $4k on this very forum. That's a heck of a deal! Much better than $3k for the 150 and then investing in a monitor so you can actually see what your shooting!

yes yes and yes,
I shoot wedding mostly, talking HD I started with Z1, then with HX A1, now with EX1, and I am changing it only to 2/3", DSLRs have their own place in the production, but I am not comfortable to shoot an event without at least one full featured video camera,
David, you won't have any regrets if you could stretch your budget and get EX1R, it has all the points (except CCD) you outlined. Z5/7 is not the same, and to my eye not even close to EX1 in dark churches/receptions. Would be great if you could rent/borrow EX1x for a day and do your tests, you'll see what a difference between 1/3" and 1/2".
best!

[Jeff Harper]

EX1 is certainly better than everything else we've discussed...great cam if you can manage it.

[David J. Payne]

Originally Posted by Buba Kastorski

I am not comfortable to shoot an event without at least one full featured video camera

i totally agree. Ideally I'd like 2 proper video cameras and a DSLR then after a wedding season if the DSLR is getting a lot of use I'd sell the 2nd video camera and make the DSLR my main cam.

Thanks for your suggestion of the EX1. I could stretch to the price if I am certain what I'm buying is the right thing.

So the EX1 records onto SD card. Does it fit about the same amount of data on it as the HMC150? What are the main advantages other than better low light? The disadvantages I can see are CMOS and heavier than the HMC150. I think I'm right in saying that like the 150 it only does 50p in 720 mode which is nto as good as the 1080 50p (I think the AF101 will do this?) but I'm soon going to do some tests between 720 and 1080 footage. 95% of my finished products are online or DVD so I think that 720 might be a better solution. Does it use up less space on the memory card?

Really appreciate the suggestion and will certainly research a lot more.

[Jeff Harper]

David, the camera for you is the one that you can afford and that gets the job done.

EX1 is a fine camera, but the batteries and cards are quite expensive. Not an inexpensive camera to outfit. The one wedding videographer in my area that used them is out of business.

In the wedding market where I am located, mainstream operator are using a Sony FX1, Z1, FX1000, the Panasonic HMC150.

There are plenty of low budget operators still using VX2100 and PD170s, and XL2, etc.

I have the benefit of knowing many other guys in the market, so there is no mystery to me what is best for me to buy. Sensible choices for you are really quite limited.

All footage uses same amout of space on card.

[David J. Payne]

ok well when you consider i have 20 batteries for my FX1's and that an EX1 2nd hand is still double the price of a new HMC151 I think I'm going to rule it out.

I can't get over the fact that I really like DSLR footage but I want a nice simple camera in the background too. If I spend all of my money on that camera then I'm going to limit myself when it comes to the DSLR thing.

I think the HMC151 (/2/3/4/whatever it is!) is the one for me.

The only point I'm still want to clarify is when the camera goes over 4gb and creates a new file, will my NLE (premiere pro cs4/cs5 on pc) recognise this and join them back together again with absolutely no gap.

I should probably test edit some raw footage anyway to see how my pc handles as I was considering an upgrade as its pretty sluggish with GH1 (hacked) footage so I'd imagine this will be as difficult to edit.