HMC150 vs FX1

[Tom Alexander]

Originally Posted by Dana Salsbury

Can I combine/merge clips on my Mac? I waste a lot of time scrolling to bring in 'the next clip'. I used to deal with just one HDV clip per tape, and miss that feature.

.mts clip join tool - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking

There is a Mac version on the page

[Mark Von Lanken]

Originally Posted by Cesar Ruiz

Mark, how would you compare the XH-A1 to the HMC150? One of the things that I really like about the XH-A1 is the fact that it is easy to control much of it without going into menus.

Hi Ceasar,

I'm sorry I didn't get back with you sooner. We had a corporate shoot in Temecula, and then a wedding yesterday in Laguna Beach. Off to the airport this morning for a wedding back in Tulsa on Sunday.

I owned an XH-A1 for about 6 months, so I am very familiar with it. The only advantages of the XH-A1 is the 20x zoom lens and for those who have to have tape, it does have a tape mechanism.

The HMC150 has a wider lens, so you don't have to add a wide angle attachment. This not only saves weight, but money as well. The HMC150 is lighter than the XH-A1, which makes handheld shooting much easier on long days.

The HMC150 is much better in low light than the XH-A1.

The XH-A1 is very easy to control without going into menus. I never did like the way you had to go into a menu on the XH-A1 to change the XLR input to the on camera mic. If I remember correctly, you also cannot run the on camera mic and an XLR at the same time. With the HMC150 you can run an on camera mic and an XLR at the same time, and it's all done by switches on the camera. No need to go into the menu for such a basic control feature.

I could go on and on, but I have to go to the airport. Let me know if you have any additional questions.

[Tom Hardwick]

Originally Posted by Mark Von Lanken

The HMC150 has a wider lens, so you don't have to add a wide angle attachment. This not only saves weight, but money as well.

Back in the 1970s I remember buying a wide-angle lens for my Minolts SLR. It was a 28 mm f/2.8 Soligor, and boy, was I impressed by that wide-angle look.

But in a few years the 28 mm was starting to cause yawns, and the 24 and 21 mm lenses were the true wides of the day. As designs improved the 17 mm became the stock super-wide. It had visual Tyson punch and perspective control by the bucket-full.

Along comes Panasonic with their 28 mm equivalent in 2008. I'm not denying that it's a very useful starting point for a 13x zoom, but to say 'you don't have to add a wide-angle attachment' is limiting your picture options hugely. The 17 mm equivalent converter on my Z1 (a single element, so not adding much to the bulk and weight) gives me the clout no 28 mm lens can ever have.

tom.

[Jeff Kellam]

Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick

Along comes Panasonic with their 28 mm equivalent in 2008. I'm not denying that it's a very useful starting point for a 13x zoom, but to say 'you don't have to add a wide-angle attachment' is limiting your picture options hugely. The 17 mm equivalent converter on my Z1 (a single element, so not adding much to the bulk and weight) gives me the clout no 28 mm lens can ever have.
tom.

I have shot with the XH-A1 and HMC-150 side by side in a small/tight room and the HMC-150 lens makes a huge difference even though numerically it is only a little wider. You can get close/wide shot with the HMC-150 that you would have to move the XH-A1 back at least 20 feet if you have the room.

I don't know how the Z1 and HMC-150 compare.

[Mark Von Lanken]

Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick

...Along comes Panasonic with their 28 mm equivalent in 2008. I'm not denying that it's a very useful starting point for a 13x zoom, but to say 'you don't have to add a wide-angle attachment' is limiting your picture options hugely...

tom.

Hi Tom,

I am a firm believer in wide angle and fisheye lenses. When we were shooting with Sony PD150/170s, we shot with a .7 on the camera for a majority of the time because the stock lens was not very wide. Then when we went to the Z1, they were wider, but not a lot.

The problem with adding a wide angle lens to the Z1 was two fold. Cost and weight. We tried one wide angle, but didn't feel it was a good bang for the buck, plus the extra weight didn't justify the extra viewing field.

So coming from those two cameras, the HMC150s 28mm lens is a dream...nice and wide, without adding the cost and weight of a wide angle adapter.

I did a recent online comparision with the stock lens, .6, and .4. You can view it here.
EventDV-TV

[Tom Hardwick]

Well I liked your comparison footage but I feel you're far too tolerant of the barrel distortion. It's ok to have it with the 0.4x, but the 0.6x as well? Sorry, but it just yells amateur. You cannot use that for serious architectural interiors or cityscapes, and the 28 mm equivalent of the 150's max wide is just too mild for the dramatic pov shot.

tom.

[Mark Von Lanken]

Hi Tom,

I don't shoot "serious" architectural interiors or cityscapes. My brides don't seem to be bothered by the barrel distortion, infact they pay quite well.

Do you have an HMC150 and if so, what wide angle lens are you using? Thanks.

[Jeff Harper]

Mark, really enjoyed the video. I like your teaching style. I have one of your videos and have watched it many times...it is without a doubt my favorite instructional video.

[Tom Hardwick]

Originally Posted by Mark Von Lanken

I don't shoot "serious" architectural interiors or cityscapes. My brides don't seem to be bothered by the barrel distortion

Know what you mean Mark, but when I say serious I mean that the couple will have paid for the beautiful cathedral, and it seems wrong for us the filmmakers to go curving the pillars, the candles, the stained glass windows. As you say, brides are only watching themselves, but there will be those that see your film who will note these things.

I'm not adverse to the odd fisheye scene in the same way as I'm not adverse to the donut rings a mirror lens produces - it's all distortion one way or another. But barrel distortion is a no-no because it barrels everything - and that includes the bride's waist.

No, don't have a 151 (the PAL 150), though have had a good play and like it. My 0.52x wide-adapter is made by Bolex in Switzerland, and bayonets onto my Z1. Best bit? Zero barrel distortion, 17 mm equivalent.

tom.

[Mark Von Lanken]

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper

Mark, really enjoyed the video. I like your teaching style. I have one of your videos and have watched it many times...it is without a doubt my favorite instructional video.

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for your kind words.

[Jeff Harper]

I don't know Tom. If I may interject into this discussion:

Customers usually hire each of us based on our shooting and editing style. Mark's customers expect what he does, and in fact that is why they hire him. His lens choices are part of the deal that they expect.

Your customers expect something different and is why you're hired much of the time. Same for me.

I made a photomontage and used an aged film effect and it turned out really beautifully. I tweaked it for just the right amount scratches (minimal), sepia, etc. and was certain the customer would love it. After all, I did a great job!

The customer freaked out in my living room when she watched it.

I explained that it was done on purpose (she thought there was somethin wrong with it) and then I told her it was a big thing on the coasts that people pay hundreds of dollars extra for (a bit of a white lie) and after awhile she decided she liked it after all. Luckily the photomontage was a huge hit and actually brought me several jobs in quick succession.

The point is she didn't expect it based on samples she had seen.

The customers vote with their pocketbooks anyway, and if Mark's success is any indication then apparently his style is pretty effective.

Slightly off topic, I personnally do not care for many aspects of cinematic style wedding videos for several reasons, but my feelings on the matter are unimportant to those that like it. The highest paid videographers in this area shoot some version of it, and I don't care for much of it, but there you are.

[David J. Payne]

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper

One thing I need to throw in that is either being overlooked, ignored, or I'm missing something: When recording with the Panasonic the files are broken into 4gb clips, which I'm finding creates a small break in the video.

could anybody confirm how this works as I'm considering buying this cam but this worries me.

How many minutes is the 4gb limit in highest quality?
Also does it require a user action to start the next clip (like canon dslr's) or does it automatically resume recording.

Does it really lose video between ending one clip and (hopefully automatically) starting the next? If so how much time is lost?

Many thanks

[Tom Hardwick]

It would help if you told us which camera you were talking about, but fear not - all camcorders film seamlessly, continuously, there'll be no glitches, lost frames, sync loss - all will be well. Just follow the instructions.

[David J. Payne]

sorry I thought this thread was specifically about the HMC150. I meant that one.

So there is no break when the 4gb file is reached?

If there is, can anybody say what time in terms of minutes that break occurs at?

[Robert Turchick]

There is no file break as far as we are concerned. If you dig into the folder structure you may see it divided but it's transparent one converted. I've recorded for 2.5 hours without stopping and when L&T in fcp saw it, it was one big chunk of video. This is a proper video camera, not a dslr.

Back to OP, I've used the 150 and fx1 side by side and while they cut together pretty well, the panny is a much better camera. Picture quality is better and most cameras in this range are not great in low light but to me the panny had a bit less noise. Panny ergonomics are fantastic and the lens is wide enough to not need an adapter...well maybe a tele adapter! Quirks with the 150 are mentioned all over the forum but the biggest to me is the LCD and viewfinder. They are not acceptable. I've edited quite a bit of footage from the xh-a1 too and it's in the same league. I haven't shot with it though.