SD workflow with HMC 150 at DVinfo.net

Scott Dordick · April 23rd, 2009, 10:47 AM

I am looking at the HMC-150. I will be doing instructional videos that I want to edit in SD because it will be faster to edit and render than HD. The final output will be to video CD’s or DVD’s. I am looking for the workflow that would be the quickest with the best SD quality. I am using PP CS3. Any suggestions?

Johnny Clark · April 23rd, 2009, 01:02 PM

You can use the free decoder/encoder from Panasonic (PC only) or buy Toast 10 (for Mac) to convert the files to the Standard Def codec of your choosing. DVCPro HD in 720p at 24fps is very manageable on most computers these days.

1. Record in 720p 24p on HMC150
2. Convert to DVCPro HD 720p 24p w/ free panasonic converter
3. Edit, Finish, Deliver

This is a very solid workflow.

David Jonas · April 23rd, 2009, 02:47 PM

I would presume the quickest and easiest would be to capture in SD from the analog ports to DV or whatever codec you use.

Scott Dordick · April 23rd, 2009, 04:15 PM

Hi David. I am new at this. So I would use the cameras component out and play back the clips at real time to a blackmagic card (or something similiar). Could I capture this in PP CS3? Would this give me the best SD quality?

David Jonas · April 23rd, 2009, 09:05 PM

I cannot say if this will give you the best SD quality, but it would work. Most would say that capturing and editing in HD and then down convert to SD would give the best quality.

Scott Dordick · April 24th, 2009, 05:58 PM

Just like you said. I found this on the Panasonic site.

SD Down-Conversion Output (Composite/Component)
The AG-HMC150 series is equipped with both composite (RCA) and component (Mini D4) video outputs, allowing HD images to be down-converted and output as SD images while they are being recorded or played. At the same time, a 16:9 or 4:3 aspect ratio can be selected for side crop, letterbox, or squeeze images. Audio output (RCA, 2 channels) enables a wide variety of applications, such as viewing on an external monitor or SD dubbing.

Does anybody know how if the down converted video looks as good from the HMC-150 as I would get with other comperable cameras like the XH A1s or Z5?

Steve Wolla · April 25th, 2009, 01:15 AM

My experience indicates that my HMC150 is fully competitive with these cams in SD as well as HD, with my trusty old XHA1. There will always be trade-offs between them (CCD vs CMOS for example), that are likely more important.

I do think your best bet with any of them is to edit in HD then burn down to an SD MPEG file for DVD authoring. That is what I do, and with pretty decent results.

Scott Dordick · April 25th, 2009, 02:46 PM

If I can edit in SD it will allow me to use my laptop for editing which is very helpful because I use the laptop to check footage when I am shooting and also I edit the footage at work and at home so it is much easier to do with a laptop. I do not want to buy a new laptop right now.

I downloaded some clips from the HMC-150 from http://vontraining.net/HMC150Preview/index.php and converted them using handbrake which is a free download at HandBrake I converted them to 720 x 480 and they looked good, but there is not any sound.. I am not sure if the sound was in the original clips or if it got lost in the conversion. I saved the clips as an AVI and they render pretty quickly in PP CS3.

Scott Dordick · April 25th, 2009, 06:58 PM

It seems that the audio was only not working in PP CS3. I changed the bitrate in handbrake to 48 and now it also works in PP CS3.

Gary Gandhi · April 26th, 2009, 03:51 PM

Hello David,

I agree with you that based on other threads I have read, editing in HD itself and then downconverting the final output to SD would give the best results. However, my question is, when i export as MPEG-2 using Premiere Pro CS4 the final output gets cropeed on the side. I could potentially export as widescreen SD and that works fine.

But i really want full screen SD. Any Idea how I can achieve that ?

Thanks.

I edit native AVCHD as I have quad core. I want to convert 1080 24 P to FULL SCREEN SD preferably using premiere itself.

Thanks everyone for helping me out.

David Jonas · April 26th, 2009, 08:34 PM

I assume that you wish to export to SD 4:3. There is no possible way to do what you want to do. You can scale it down to allow you to show the cropped areas, however you will have black bars at the top and bottom. The best way to to do this would be shoot with downconverting to 4:3 in mind. If your camera has a 4:3 guide frame, use that to frame your shots so that when you downconvert you will get all the details you need.

Steve Wolla · April 26th, 2009, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Gandhi

Hello David,

I agree with you that based on other threads I have read, editing in HD itself and then downconverting the final output to SD would give the best results. However, my question is, when i export as MPEG-2 using Premiere Pro CS4 the final output gets cropeed on the side. I could potentially export as widescreen SD and that works fine.

But i really want full screen SD. Any Idea how I can achieve that ?

Thanks.

I edit native AVCHD as I have quad core. I want to convert 1080 24 P to FULL SCREEN SD preferably using premiere itself.

Thanks everyone for helping me out.

I use CS3, but I assume it is close enough to CS4 in practice....
Very basic, but easy to miss as well.

When you create your MPEG2 file in Media Encoder, make sure that you:

1. Go to the "Preset" drop down menu under "Export Settings". Now select "NTSC Progressive Wide Screen High Quality".

2. Now look at the bottom of the "Basic Video Settings" and go to the last item, "Pixel Aspect Ratio". Choose "Widescreen 16:9"
That should give you a very nice 16:9 SD MPEG2 file with which to author your DVD.

April 23rd, 2009, 10:47 AM	#1
Scott Dordick New Boot Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: California Posts: 15	SD workflow with HMC 150 I am looking at the HMC-150. I will be doing instructional videos that I want to edit in SD because it will be faster to edit and render than HD. The final output will be to video CD’s or DVD’s. I am looking for the workflow that would be the quickest with the best SD quality. I am using PP CS3. Any suggestions?

April 23rd, 2009, 04:15 PM	#4
Scott Dordick New Boot Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: California Posts: 15	SD workrflow with HMC-150 Hi David. I am new at this. So I would use the cameras component out and play back the clips at real time to a blackmagic card (or something similiar). Could I capture this in PP CS3? Would this give me the best SD quality?

April 24th, 2009, 05:58 PM	#6
Scott Dordick New Boot Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: California Posts: 15	SD Workflow with HMC-150 Just like you said. I found this on the Panasonic site. SD Down-Conversion Output (Composite/Component) The AG-HMC150 series is equipped with both composite (RCA) and component (Mini D4) video outputs, allowing HD images to be down-converted and output as SD images while they are being recorded or played. At the same time, a 16:9 or 4:3 aspect ratio can be selected for side crop, letterbox, or squeeze images. Audio output (RCA, 2 channels) enables a wide variety of applications, such as viewing on an external monitor or SD dubbing. Does anybody know how if the down converted video looks as good from the HMC-150 as I would get with other comperable cameras like the XH A1s or Z5?

April 25th, 2009, 02:46 PM	#8
Scott Dordick New Boot Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: California Posts: 15	SD workflow with HMC-150 If I can edit in SD it will allow me to use my laptop for editing which is very helpful because I use the laptop to check footage when I am shooting and also I edit the footage at work and at home so it is much easier to do with a laptop. I do not want to buy a new laptop right now. I downloaded some clips from the HMC-150 from http://vontraining.net/HMC150Preview/index.php and converted them using handbrake which is a free download at HandBrake I converted them to 720 x 480 and they looked good, but there is not any sound.. I am not sure if the sound was in the original clips or if it got lost in the conversion. I saved the clips as an AVI and they render pretty quickly in PP CS3.

April 25th, 2009, 06:58 PM	#9
Scott Dordick New Boot Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: California Posts: 15	Hmc-150 It seems that the audio was only not working in PP CS3. I changed the bitrate in handbrake to 48 and now it also works in PP CS3.

April 23rd, 2009, 01:02 PM	#2
Johnny Clark New Boot Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 22	You can use the free decoder/encoder from Panasonic (PC only) or buy Toast 10 (for Mac) to convert the files to the Standard Def codec of your choosing. DVCPro HD in 720p at 24fps is very manageable on most computers these days. 1. Record in 720p 24p on HMC150 2. Convert to DVCPro HD 720p 24p w/ free panasonic converter 3. Edit, Finish, Deliver This is a very solid workflow.

April 23rd, 2009, 02:47 PM	#3
David Jonas Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Orlando, Fl Posts: 60	I would presume the quickest and easiest would be to capture in SD from the analog ports to DV or whatever codec you use.

April 23rd, 2009, 09:05 PM	#5
David Jonas Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Orlando, Fl Posts: 60	I cannot say if this will give you the best SD quality, but it would work. Most would say that capturing and editing in HD and then down convert to SD would give the best quality.

April 25th, 2009, 01:15 AM	#7
Steve Wolla Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 477	My experience indicates that my HMC150 is fully competitive with these cams in SD as well as HD, with my trusty old XHA1. There will always be trade-offs between them (CCD vs CMOS for example), that are likely more important. I do think your best bet with any of them is to edit in HD then burn down to an SD MPEG file for DVD authoring. That is what I do, and with pretty decent results.

April 26th, 2009, 03:51 PM	#10
Gary Gandhi Tourist Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Iselin, NJ Posts: 3	Hello David, I agree with you that based on other threads I have read, editing in HD itself and then downconverting the final output to SD would give the best results. However, my question is, when i export as MPEG-2 using Premiere Pro CS4 the final output gets cropeed on the side. I could potentially export as widescreen SD and that works fine. But i really want full screen SD. Any Idea how I can achieve that ? Thanks. I edit native AVCHD as I have quad core. I want to convert 1080 24 P to FULL SCREEN SD preferably using premiere itself. Thanks everyone for helping me out.

April 26th, 2009, 08:34 PM	#11
David Jonas Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Orlando, Fl Posts: 60	I assume that you wish to export to SD 4:3. There is no possible way to do what you want to do. You can scale it down to allow you to show the cropped areas, however you will have black bars at the top and bottom. The best way to to do this would be shoot with downconverting to 4:3 in mind. If your camera has a 4:3 guide frame, use that to frame your shots so that when you downconvert you will get all the details you need.