Different batteries on HMC150 then HVX and DVX? at DVinfo.net

Frederic Segard · March 31st, 2009, 07:29 PM

Why on earth did Pany change the battery type for the HMC150? Now I got to buy a whole new set! What's so special about them anyway? I can't seem to find info on them.

TingSern Wong · April 1st, 2009, 10:53 AM

I can't answer the marketing reasons why they change - but the power requirements for HMC152 and HVX172 are different ... HVX172 draw a heavier current than HMC152.

Frederic Segard · April 1st, 2009, 11:19 AM

I would presume it's because of the two P2 cards on the HPX170. They must draw more power then a single, small, SDHC card. But still, why does it warrant a battery change? It's not as if it drew more power, or that the voltage is different!

It must surely be a marketing choice, so that people switching have to buy new batteries instead of recycling their existing DVX or HVX batteries. Such ploys are not Eco friendly.

Unless... battery management is improved, and provides for a more precise battery level indication to the cam. in which case, there's a definite technological improvement. But why on earth isn't Pany bragging about it? There's nothing that talks about the new batteries.

TingSern Wong · April 1st, 2009, 07:46 PM

Solid state devices draw little power. In this case, I think it was done for marketing reasons rather than technical.

Yang Wen · April 2nd, 2009, 08:32 AM

I'm sure it was due to financial reasons to make up for the lost revenue from otherwise "recommended" Panasonic brand professional tapes. At the price they are charging for SD cards, Panasonic can only realistically redeem profits from the sale of the camera itself, oh that and them "chipped" batteries.

Barry Green · April 3rd, 2009, 12:48 PM

The battery was changed for a couple of reasons, which may end up being one and the same. The new HMC150 battery is an "intelligent" battery with a chip in it that communicates with the camera and tells the camera how much power is left, to the minute. The DVX-series batteries didn't have that.

How that comes into play with the HMC150 is perhaps due to the tapeless nature of the camcorder; if the power is suddenly cut off then you might end up with a corrupted clip that needs to be repaired. But with the intelligent battery the camera can sense when power is about to be extinguished and it can close out the file system and successfully save the recording.

Frederic Segard · April 3rd, 2009, 06:44 PM

That's interesting to know. I wonder why Panasonic does not share this insightful information so we may be informed. I searched and searched to know why... to no avail. But of course, I am not surprised to see that Barry had the answers. :-) Thanks Barry... My hero!

Barry Green · April 6th, 2009, 03:49 PM

Glad to help. :)

TingSern Wong · April 6th, 2009, 07:46 PM

Barry,

In that case, why is there a difference in treatment between HMC150 and HVX170 then? Both are tapeless - one records to SDHC while the other goes on P2. If HVX170 power dies, isn't it the same thing (leaving one last corrupted clip on media) as HMC150 then?

Frederic Segard · April 6th, 2009, 08:08 PM

Mmmmm... Good point!

As my vendor stated last I saw him, the HMC is a new product line with different recording media, outside of Panasonic's normal P2 road map. They decided to change at this point, probably because it would not seriously affect those entrenched in the P2 Workflow.

He also said, and that was his opinion, which I find logical, in a "marketing way": They don't have the monopoly on SDHC cards like they do on P2. This means a potential revenue loss. So for those upgrading from the DVX (and some HVXs)....more money coming their way.

And on another note, my vendor mentioned, that there was some issues with certain 3rd party batterie manufacturers that adversely affected the cameras, where the Panasonic batteries did not. So by changing battery configuration, it eliminates the crap floating out there..... for the time being!

TingSern Wong · April 6th, 2009, 08:17 PM

Now - that's something I can't understand as well. Why folks are willing to spend $4K on a professional camera, but - want to save a few dollars getting a 3rd party battery that causes problems on the camera? If the battery comes from a reputable vendor (like Anton Bauer) I won't have an issue with that. But, I see some of my friends buying China made batteries - then complain that the camera dies after about 2 hours - whereas mine still goes on shooting for 6 hours ...

Barry Green · April 7th, 2009, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TingSern Wong

Barry,

In that case, why is there a difference in treatment between HMC150 and HVX170 then? Both are tapeless - one records to SDHC while the other goes on P2. If HVX170 power dies, isn't it the same thing (leaving one last corrupted clip on media) as HMC150 then?

Because P2 has always had protection against that, integrated into the card. P2 has a microprocessor inside the card that manages all data transfer, verifies all data that gets written to the card to ensure it gets there properly, and closes the file system every two seconds. So with a P2 recording if you yanked the power or the battery died, the worst you'd ever suffer is a loss of the last two seconds of footage. So if the power is cut during that time you might have to repair the last clip, which means snicking off the truncated recording and saving everything up to that point. But you're protected because P2 inherently closes the file system every two seconds to ensure the data integrity.

TingSern Wong · April 7th, 2009, 10:01 AM

Thank you, Barry. Now I don't feel so bad paying for a premium that goes into a P2 card. I never knew that until now. That really explains in a big way why there is such a large difference in price between a P2 card and the rest of the memory cards.

March 31st, 2009, 07:29 PM	#1
Frederic Segard Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 209	Different batteries on HMC150 then HVX and DVX? Why on earth did Pany change the battery type for the HMC150? Now I got to buy a whole new set! What's so special about them anyway? I can't seem to find info on them.

April 1st, 2009, 10:53 AM	#2
TingSern Wong Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Singapore, Rep of SINGAPORE Posts: 749	I can't answer the marketing reasons why they change - but the power requirements for HMC152 and HVX172 are different ... HVX172 draw a heavier current than HMC152.

April 1st, 2009, 11:19 AM	#3
Frederic Segard Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 209	I would presume it's because of the two P2 cards on the HPX170. They must draw more power then a single, small, SDHC card. But still, why does it warrant a battery change? It's not as if it drew more power, or that the voltage is different! It must surely be a marketing choice, so that people switching have to buy new batteries instead of recycling their existing DVX or HVX batteries. Such ploys are not Eco friendly. Unless... battery management is improved, and provides for a more precise battery level indication to the cam. in which case, there's a definite technological improvement. But why on earth isn't Pany bragging about it? There's nothing that talks about the new batteries.

April 1st, 2009, 07:46 PM	#4
TingSern Wong Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Singapore, Rep of SINGAPORE Posts: 749	Solid state devices draw little power. In this case, I think it was done for marketing reasons rather than technical.

April 2nd, 2009, 08:32 AM	#5
Yang Wen Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 991	I'm sure it was due to financial reasons to make up for the lost revenue from otherwise "recommended" Panasonic brand professional tapes. At the price they are charging for SD cards, Panasonic can only realistically redeem profits from the sale of the camera itself, oh that and them "chipped" batteries.

April 3rd, 2009, 12:48 PM	#6
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	The battery was changed for a couple of reasons, which may end up being one and the same. The new HMC150 battery is an "intelligent" battery with a chip in it that communicates with the camera and tells the camera how much power is left, to the minute. The DVX-series batteries didn't have that. How that comes into play with the HMC150 is perhaps due to the tapeless nature of the camcorder; if the power is suddenly cut off then you might end up with a corrupted clip that needs to be repaired. But with the intelligent battery the camera can sense when power is about to be extinguished and it can close out the file system and successfully save the recording.

April 3rd, 2009, 06:44 PM	#7
Frederic Segard Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 209	That's interesting to know. I wonder why Panasonic does not share this insightful information so we may be informed. I searched and searched to know why... to no avail. But of course, I am not surprised to see that Barry had the answers. :-) Thanks Barry... My hero!

April 6th, 2009, 03:49 PM	#8
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Glad to help. :)

April 6th, 2009, 07:46 PM	#9
TingSern Wong Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Singapore, Rep of SINGAPORE Posts: 749	Barry, In that case, why is there a difference in treatment between HMC150 and HVX170 then? Both are tapeless - one records to SDHC while the other goes on P2. If HVX170 power dies, isn't it the same thing (leaving one last corrupted clip on media) as HMC150 then?

April 6th, 2009, 08:08 PM	#10
Frederic Segard Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 209	Mmmmm... Good point! As my vendor stated last I saw him, the HMC is a new product line with different recording media, outside of Panasonic's normal P2 road map. They decided to change at this point, probably because it would not seriously affect those entrenched in the P2 Workflow. He also said, and that was his opinion, which I find logical, in a "marketing way": They don't have the monopoly on SDHC cards like they do on P2. This means a potential revenue loss. So for those upgrading from the DVX (and some HVXs)....more money coming their way. And on another note, my vendor mentioned, that there was some issues with certain 3rd party batterie manufacturers that adversely affected the cameras, where the Panasonic batteries did not. So by changing battery configuration, it eliminates the crap floating out there..... for the time being!

April 6th, 2009, 08:17 PM	#11
TingSern Wong Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Singapore, Rep of SINGAPORE Posts: 749	Now - that's something I can't understand as well. Why folks are willing to spend $4K on a professional camera, but - want to save a few dollars getting a 3rd party battery that causes problems on the camera? If the battery comes from a reputable vendor (like Anton Bauer) I won't have an issue with that. But, I see some of my friends buying China made batteries - then complain that the camera dies after about 2 hours - whereas mine still goes on shooting for 6 hours ...

April 7th, 2009, 10:01 AM	#13
TingSern Wong Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Singapore, Rep of SINGAPORE Posts: 749	Thank you, Barry. Now I don't feel so bad paying for a premium that goes into a P2 card. I never knew that until now. That really explains in a big way why there is such a large difference in price between a P2 card and the rest of the memory cards.