HMC150 video quality over this~

[Steve Nunez]

Hey guys, I've read just about every posting regarding this new Panasonic HMC150- from DVinfo.net and beyond, and have downloaded every available clip I've come across (including Barry's & Vimeo clips.)
I initially thought the HMC150 was a Panny tactic to put a "Pro" moniker on a consumer level camcorder in a pro form factor using the terrible AVCHD codec- how wrong I was!!!!
After researching extensively I've learned quite a bit about AVCHD and how I now know it's superior to HDV, of which I liked as per easy editing and quality footage I've gotten from my past HDV cams (Sony FX-1, FX-7, Canon XH-A1 and HV10.)
As per right now, I'm intrigued by the Panasonic HMC150 (I've owned a few DVX's) and the Canon EOS 5D Mk II. I know they are totally different in just about every aspect, but for my needs I think either would do a great job- just trying to decide between them~!
I have seen really nice footage from both the HMC and 5D but to be honest I've been most impressed with the 5D's footage as it always leaves me a bit stunned at the absolute quality it seems to attain. Not saying the HMC isn't good- it just seems to be very good while the Canon seems to be "excellent"- I hope I'm putting this across correctly......either way I'm impressed with both cams for different reasons (and am fully aware of each's +/-'s)

I'm posting here, 2 links to 2 short video clips and I'd like anyone who cares to view them and make a comment about the quality. I'm wondering just how much "more" in terms of "quality" I'd achieve with a HMC150.
I wont say what camcorder produced the clips until a few of you guys have posted remarks and we'll see how the remarks go from there.
Anyways- it's been a blast reading everyone's takes on these new cameras and as always dvinfonetters usually are spot-on on their views of these cameras.

I'll soon own either a HMC150 or 5D MkII........the quest for knowledge continues- thanks everyone.

http://www.stevenunez.com/video/DuckWingShow.mov

http://www.stevenunez.com/video/Tapir2.MOV

[Ethan Cooper]

Steve - I've seen your posts here and you seem to know your stuff so I'm sure you've considered this already, but the main question when deciding on these two cams is what sort of work will you be using them for?

The 5D's image is impressive but what kind of record times do you require?

The 150 has proper audio and manual controls but the image isn't going to look as nice as the 5D. Are the non-image quality things more important to the work you do?

[Ethan Cooper]

I thought this would be easy from an image quality standpoint, but from looking at those two clips I don't know which one I'm looking at.

The duck looks like it has some auto focus issues and I was under the impression that the 5D didn't do auto focus, but it's cleaner (noise wise) than the zoo animal (whatever that thing is).

I was ready to proclaim that the duck was the 150, but then seeing the noise in the zoo clip I'm just not sure which is which.

Maybe I need to borrow a 5D from a photographer friend to play with.

[Steve Nunez]

Hey Ethan, actually none of these clips were shot with either the 150 or 5D- another camera entirely......was just wondering how much "better" one of those cams would shoot. There is definitely AF hunting going on but when it locks it produces very nice video. On my 30" Apple Cinema Display the footage looks great and I'd like to step it up a notch to either the 150 or 5D.

For my needs either cam would be fine- I typically don't need long recording times at any one given moment.
The draw of the HMC150 is that it's a purpose made video camera and shoots great video and has all the pluses of being a video camera. The 5D has (to my eyes anyway) a cleaner video look- more like the Sony EX1 and while not a true "video camera" it does sport a "mic in" jack which works well with my future needs (instructional airbrush videos.) It doesn't track moving objects as well as the Panasonic- so I could go on and on about the merits and minuses of both cams- both of which I like for each's strengths.

Anyone who remembers my posts knows I'm the typical "prosumer" who is NO pro at all but is enthusiastic about image quality and therefore prefer to buy upper end equipment (prosumer level anyway.) So my latest obsession has been with these 2 cameras....and while I'm lately leaning towards the 5D- the Panasonic HMC150 always comes back into the picture.

~~Ohh and for the record- I shot those 2 clips with a Casio EX-F1, in it's 720p mode (it also shoots beautiful 1080i) which has been a great surprise to me. The camera is being touted as a new generation of video/still hybrid that shoots exceptional high speed video (1200 FPS!)- but it's HD video has impressed me the most....I can't wait to personally own one of these 2 future cams I'm debating on.
Another sample of the HD video from the Casio: some focus hunting but sharp when locked in: handheld~~http://www.stevenunez.com/video/caribband.MOV

[Ethan Cooper]

Well that would explain my confusion.

The duck looked close to what I've seen out of the 150 but neither looked like the 5D to me. Now I know why.

[Jeff Kellam]

Steve:

If you are going to do extreme pixel peeping on video, you need the EX-1. I wouldn't bother with the 5D or HMC150 or any partial solution.

The only way I could ever see using a camera for video would be in a studio setting with a fixed focus tripod shot, which may be what you are thinking. Im interested in the next iteration of the Pana G1 with the HD auto focusing, OIS lens. That will be big IMO.

At least 50 to 90% of the video experience is the high quality audio. The 5D misses here, but on the other hand, I usually use a digital audio recorder for the main audio anyway.

The whole problem with this question, is that neither product is the solution. If you want excellent image resolution and sound results, you have to step up to an EX-1 or higher level camera.

FYI, I am also a Canon DSLR photographer and know Canon cameras and lens very well. I just can't see any of my lens providing a good large DOF shot for video (to keep a moving subject in focus) without being set on F8ish which seems awfully slow. Where the 5D would be totally un-equaled would be using a sharp tele like the 70-200 or longer for some long distance or moon video, etc. That, no video camera could touch.

[Steve Nunez]

Jeff, well I am a bit of a pixel peeper and have always felt Canon's stuff was always a cut above the rest- just my observations (and opinion.) But I do feel Sony's EX-1 is an exceptional camera and would be my first choice is $ were no object!

But- I can't help but feel, this is an important time with regards to digital video- much as was HDV when it first surfaced with the JVC HD-10U and GRD-1's (of which both I purchased~.) It's obvious both Nikon and Canon will be including HD video in their future DSLR's with every new generation besting the last...and Olympus has stated HD is planned in their future 4/3 DSLR's as well (who knows if Pentax and Sony will do the same?) From a video quality point of view, these new DSLR's are producing stellar video- much of which can be attributed to the larger sensors and optics which will rival and surpass prosumer grade offerings of today and possibly near future. Of course a DSLR will not handle as well as a dedicated video camera nor will it likely have as many options- at least not in the near future. So presently my considerations are for either the HMC150 and 5D of which I admire both for their properties- although very different in many aspects- but they are comparable to some mental degree.

Since I've become a sponsored/endorsed (Alsa Corp. Paint) airbrush artist, my current desire is for a HD camera that will allow me to archive tons of footage to be authored in the future into instructional SD and Blu-Ray DVD's. At the moment my website has tons of video showing progressive footage of projects I've airbrushed- and with the demand for DVD's, I have to look for a quality camera that will allow me to do this. I know I'd be happy with either the Pan or Can cameras as they'd be a step-up image wise to the Casio of which I've been happy with.

Since this is a Pan HMC150 thread I figured someone would chime in on their feelings about the video quality that camera is producing. I know it's best showing is in the 720P modes (PH) which is fine by me- but I can't honestly say I've downloaded anything truly remarkable image-wise from the 150- but that could be just due to no-one having posted something really remarkable as of yet. So I'm up in the air about purchasing either- but within the next month or so I'd like to purchase one of them!
My research continues due to great forums like this and over at DVXuser- a wealth of knowledge from users is priceless!

Here is a page of my brief web-vids- but as I said, I'm getting tons of e-mails requesting DVD's.....so here goes:
Videos

Thanks to the efforts of Chris Hurd and all whom participate on these forums- that's what makes them great and keeps us coming back!!!

[Paulo Teixeira]

Originally Posted by Steve Nunez

Olympus has stated HD is planned in their future 4/3 DSLR's as well (who knows if Pentax and Sony will do the same?)

I think you meant Panasonic stating that they'll release an HD version of the G1 unless you read something that I havn't yet. Still a possibility.

[Gabriel Berube]

Weird isn't it?

HD Video cameras just got to kick the 4:3 academic aspect ratio out of their system to put 16:9 as the new standard, and yet it makes a comeback with Panny's and Olympus' micro fourthird DSLR format!

Who said 4/3 was dead? ;)

[David Parks]

Four Thirds System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To be clear, 4:3/16:9 aspect ratios have little to with Four Thirds Lense Systems.

Thanks

[Steve Nunez]

Correct- I meant Panasonic- not Olympus.

[Jeff Kellam]

Steve:

I haven't seen any real 5D footage yet, but the cameras were mostly just delivered last week, so it will be here soon.

The footage like you find on the Canon website, I would consider the best possible results, and not easily duplicated.

Im using the HMC150 for events and it is very nice. I can tell you from running deshaker and color corrector scripts all day, a 5DII will never be an event camera.

The 5D might be a great studio fixed camera though. I really want to see some real life video. I bet the Canon 50D replacement will have video too, but on the smaller APC sensor.

Oh yeah, with the HMC150, I have not shot but a little really stunningly good video yet. So I know it can do it, but it is going to take more scene file and lighting set up tests.

Jeff

[Steve Nunez]

I agree Jeff- video on DSLR's will likely become more common in the years to come- with outstanding results.

Has anyone who's purchased a HMC150 also owned a Canon Vixia HF10/100- what did you think of the quality- any comparisons- comments?