Digital projection? at DVinfo.net

Greg Corke · May 4th, 2007, 02:45 PM

Hi Guys,

Just wondering if anyone has had any experience with digital projection? I see JVC have developed some projectors and just wondering what the results are like i.e. do you still get the detail enhancement that is experienced with a transfer? I'm curious as I've seen some quite dramatic differences of playbeack on LCDs depending on make and quality etc, etc.

Cheers G

Michael Hurley · May 4th, 2007, 03:16 PM

Hi Greg,

My work involves quite a bit of AV - it's mostly in the mid to high end, so I hope my experience will be of some use to you.

At present, there three fundemental types of projection systems used:

1. CRT - the most venerable, but still used for a lot of applications such as simulation, scientific work

2. LCD - until recently the most commonly found type. Used in a huge array of devices from simple single-chip desktop projectors right up to cutting edge high output, 3-chip digital cinema systems

3. DLP - the newest from of technology, developed by Texas Instruments. Again available in projectors from desktop and home projectors right through to 3-chip digital cinema and large event systems.

You might expand upon what type of application you have in mind, but generally speaking the main areas of concern when selecting a projector would be contrast ratio (the higher the better), resolution (full HD would obviously require chips with a res of 1920x1080) and brightness - realistically for any application other than pure home/domestic use you will require in excess of 2000 ANSI Lumens.

If you are looking at professional systems, then the manufacturers you should look at first, IMHO, should be Barco and Christie. With their systems, you will have the greatest degree of control over the image and the greatest flexibility in terms of input. Be aware though, that you could be looking at well in excess of €10,000 to get you into the market.

Hope this is of help.

Michael.

Tim Dashwood · May 4th, 2007, 05:57 PM

Michael,

You forgot "#4 - LCOS." JVC uses LCOS in all of their D-iLA projectors. I would argue that this technology is actually newer than DLP.

Personally I think LCOS is better than DLP or LCD combined. I've seen my HD100 material projected many times on a Christie projector in a D.I. suite, and I've seen it projected once on a big Barco (the NAB FCP Supermeet.)
The DLP technology looks "good" for most intents and purposes. However, once you see your footage projected on a LCOS D-iLA projector you will cringe everytime you see it on LCD or DLP. I detest watching anything I've shot on LCD.
JVC has shown my HD100 material at Sundance and NAB on the newest D-iLA projector (with an incredible 15000:1 contrast ratio) and it looks as good as I'd expect with film projection.
There's no "screen door effect," bubbling blacks, colour fringing, etc. It is truly an amazing experience.
I have an older DLA-SX21 at home that I use for colour correction before these events. I plug the DVI out of my Macbook into the projector, set it to sRGB profile at D6500K, and it becomes a very WYSIWYG experience when I eventually play it on a calibrated projector on the other end.

Boyd Ostroff · May 4th, 2007, 06:38 PM

I've worked with large venue projectors from Barco, Digital Projection, Sanyo and other companies in my capacity at the Opera Company of Philadelphia. I put some of my experiences into the following DVinfo article: http://www.dvinfo.net/articles/produ...videostage.php

Michael Hurley · May 4th, 2007, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

Michael,

You forgot "#4 - LCOS." JVC uses LCOS in all of their D-iLA projectors. I would argue that this technology is actually newer than DLP.

Personally I think LCOS is better than DLP or LCD combined. I've seen my HD100 material projected many times on a Christie projector in a D.I. suite, and I've seen it projected once on a big Barco (the NAB FCP Supermeet.)
The DLP technology looks "good" for most intents and purposes. However, once you see your footage projected on a LCOS D-iLA projector you will cringe everytime you see it on LCD or DLP. I detest watching anything I've shot on LCD.
JVC has shown my HD100 material at Sundance and NAB on the newest D-iLA projector (with an incredible 15000:1 contrast ratio) and it looks as good as I'd expect with film projection.
There's no "screen door effect," bubbling blacks, colour fringing, etc. It is truly an amazing experience.
I have an older DLA-SX21 at home that I use for colour correction before these events. I plug the DVI out of my Macbook into the projector, set it to sRGB profile at D6500K, and it becomes a very WYSIWYG experience when I eventually play it on a calibrated projector on the other end.

Point taken, Tim.

I haven't had the opportunity to see the image from an LCOS projector - from what I've read and heard they do seem to offer many attributes which would make them much more suitable for digital cinema type applications.

Alas, my experience is primarily in the corporate and event sector - but I'll look forward to getting the chance to see one of JVC's D-ILA units in action.

Regards.

David Knaggs · May 5th, 2007, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Corke

Just wondering if anyone has had any experience with digital projection? I see JVC have developed some projectors and just wondering what the results are like

Hi Greg.
I want to second Tim's comments about the new JVC projectors. He's not exaggerating when he says, "it looks as good as I'd expect with film projection," and "It is truly an amazing experience." I had some of our footage (shot in HDV 720p24) shown at a JVC event two months ago on one of the new JVC projectors. And the projected footage looked absolutely stunning. To say I was thrilled would be an understatement. (And thanks again to Tim for his tips in another thread about how to best prepare the footage for that event!)

While I don't believe that JVC have yet released a projector powerful enough for a full-sized cinema, these latest models really point the way to a workable short-term future for low-cost (but very high quality) Digital Cinema. Straight from the 24p HD/HDV camera to NLE to selected cinema screen (those cinemas adopting these newest style projectors). And well before the DCI (Digital Cinema Initiative) specs roll out for Hollywood movies (which I think will still take a few years before the majority of cinemas are equipped for DCI-standards projection).

Greg Corke · May 5th, 2007, 09:52 AM

Thanks guys sounds interesting. I suppose I'm curious as, like i said, playback on some larger LCDs looks poor IMO.
I also tried blowing up a section of footage in the playback window in PP2 and again was not impressed with the quality. However, my pc does not have HD resolution monitor and I know that you are dealing with compressed footage when doing this and the fact that PP2 clips superb black and white makes me think that this is probably not a fair test for footage.
I suppose my main concern, as a content provider, is how to insure your footage is seen at its best. I suppose you can give guidelines but that's about it I guess. Any thoughts?

Greg

May 4th, 2007, 02:45 PM	#1
Greg Corke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 245	Digital projection? Hi Guys, Just wondering if anyone has had any experience with digital projection? I see JVC have developed some projectors and just wondering what the results are like i.e. do you still get the detail enhancement that is experienced with a transfer? I'm curious as I've seen some quite dramatic differences of playbeack on LCDs depending on make and quality etc, etc. Cheers G

May 4th, 2007, 05:57 PM	#3
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	Michael, You forgot "#4 - LCOS." JVC uses LCOS in all of their D-iLA projectors. I would argue that this technology is actually newer than DLP. Personally I think LCOS is better than DLP or LCD combined. I've seen my HD100 material projected many times on a Christie projector in a D.I. suite, and I've seen it projected once on a big Barco (the NAB FCP Supermeet.) The DLP technology looks "good" for most intents and purposes. However, once you see your footage projected on a LCOS D-iLA projector you will cringe everytime you see it on LCD or DLP. I detest watching anything I've shot on LCD. JVC has shown my HD100 material at Sundance and NAB on the newest D-iLA projector (with an incredible 15000:1 contrast ratio) and it looks as good as I'd expect with film projection. There's no "screen door effect," bubbling blacks, colour fringing, etc. It is truly an amazing experience. I have an older DLA-SX21 at home that I use for colour correction before these events. I plug the DVI out of my Macbook into the projector, set it to sRGB profile at D6500K, and it becomes a very WYSIWYG experience when I eventually play it on a calibrated projector on the other end. __________________ Tim Dashwood

May 4th, 2007, 03:16 PM	#2
Michael Hurley New Boot Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Cork, Ireland Posts: 24	Hi Greg, My work involves quite a bit of AV - it's mostly in the mid to high end, so I hope my experience will be of some use to you. At present, there three fundemental types of projection systems used: 1. CRT - the most venerable, but still used for a lot of applications such as simulation, scientific work 2. LCD - until recently the most commonly found type. Used in a huge array of devices from simple single-chip desktop projectors right up to cutting edge high output, 3-chip digital cinema systems 3. DLP - the newest from of technology, developed by Texas Instruments. Again available in projectors from desktop and home projectors right through to 3-chip digital cinema and large event systems. You might expand upon what type of application you have in mind, but generally speaking the main areas of concern when selecting a projector would be contrast ratio (the higher the better), resolution (full HD would obviously require chips with a res of 1920x1080) and brightness - realistically for any application other than pure home/domestic use you will require in excess of 2000 ANSI Lumens. If you are looking at professional systems, then the manufacturers you should look at first, IMHO, should be Barco and Christie. With their systems, you will have the greatest degree of control over the image and the greatest flexibility in terms of input. Be aware though, that you could be looking at well in excess of €10,000 to get you into the market. Hope this is of help. Michael.

May 4th, 2007, 06:38 PM	#4
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	I've worked with large venue projectors from Barco, Digital Projection, Sanyo and other companies in my capacity at the Opera Company of Philadelphia. I put some of my experiences into the following DVinfo article: http://www.dvinfo.net/articles/produ...videostage.php

May 5th, 2007, 09:52 AM	#7
Greg Corke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 245	Thanks guys sounds interesting. I suppose I'm curious as, like i said, playback on some larger LCDs looks poor IMO. I also tried blowing up a section of footage in the playback window in PP2 and again was not impressed with the quality. However, my pc does not have HD resolution monitor and I know that you are dealing with compressed footage when doing this and the fact that PP2 clips superb black and white makes me think that this is probably not a fair test for footage. I suppose my main concern, as a content provider, is how to insure your footage is seen at its best. I suppose you can give guidelines but that's about it I guess. Any thoughts? Greg