How to edit PAL for an overseas friend?

Glen Elliott · May 5th, 2003, 07:57 PM

The only problem is DV stream (or uncompressed DV) is not very efficient with space. I'd be pressed for space even on a 4.7 gig DVD when working with uncompressed DV footage. A DVD wouldn't even fit a half-hour of uncompressed edited footage.

Simon Orange · May 5th, 2003, 08:09 PM

Glen,

I totally agree with Adrian, Steven-Marc, Jeff et al.

I get DVD-R for 50p a disk (www.scan.co.uk)..surely you can afford to buy a few of these and spread it out over several disks.

Keep everthing in its native format.....Don't make DVD-video this will deteriorate the quality dramatically...one compress to make the raw footage DVD and another to make the final edit DVD. (heavily compressed - twice over).

Your final .avi/.mov might span a few dvds so your PAL pal (joke, geddit ?) might have to do some piecing together at his end.

It may be that your friend hasn't access to the kit to transfer the DV to AVI in that case I suggest that your best bet, as Jeff says, is to beg/borrow/steal even hire a PAL dv deck for the capture and again to lay out the final master.

One more thing to bear in mind when you are doing the edit in PAL.
If you try to preview on your TV during the edit via the firewire out on your PC/mac your US TV won't display the images from premiere via firewire. It might be that your NTSC cam might even show the PAL images on it's LCD from a firewire input (although the camera won't know what to do the actual PAL tapes). Might or might not be a problem for you.

I have worked a great deal at post-production houses both in the UK and the US so I am gonna make an observation that is a little contentious - and I hope I cause no offence. The Brits always feel a little superior using PAL over NTSC (Never The Same Colour twice) - But still, most PAL domestic gear, VHS/DVD/TV can play NTSC fine but most NTSC gear runs a mile when you show it a PAL source. Most UK DVD watchers know what a region 1 DVD is but most US DVD users don't . Try finding a scart (euro) connector on a US TV - Even some of the cheapest UK TVs have an RGB or S-video and stereo audio on the scart. In the UK widescreen TV is the defacto standard now....it is easier to find one than a 4:3 in most shops. Quite the reverse in the US - they may be big TVs but they're mainly 4:3. Most UK broadcasters shoot 16:9 and broadcast native anamorphic 16:9 over digital link (to be honest the digital part is a mixed blessing). This means even soap operas and gameshows. For nearly 3 years ALL UK commercials had to be presented in 16:9 FHA - with all the framing - title/action safe - ramifications.

I understand the reasons why the US standard is so prevalent - but it is dissapointing in a country that committed itself to HD broadcasting so many years ago that it hasn't been able to make greater moves towards completing this - and helping to lead the way in broadcasting not drag its feet several years behind.

I better run for cover now !

simon

Glen Elliott · May 6th, 2003, 08:38 AM

He he, I totaly agree. Actually a few years back they had this "plan" that in x-amount of years 50% or more networks would have moved to HD broadcast. Did it happen- NO! It's not even worth odering the HD service from the local cable company due to the lack of support. Hence my 36" (4:3) Sony Wega HDtv has to settle on standard resolution images for now. I do however get to reap the benefit of 480p with my progressive scan DVD player.

I appreciate all the input you guys have given me. It's been abundantly helpfull. I think I'll work on going the uncompressed DVD route. If I edit in such a way there are simple breaks where he can then capture and line them up on the timeline it shouldn't be a problem. All I have to do is make sure the footage he burns to DVD will be compatable with my DVD-/+R and vice versa. Thanks again everyone!

May 5th, 2003, 07:57 PM	#16
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	The only problem is DV stream (or uncompressed DV) is not very efficient with space. I'd be pressed for space even on a 4.7 gig DVD when working with uncompressed DV footage. A DVD wouldn't even fit a half-hour of uncompressed edited footage.

May 5th, 2003, 08:09 PM	#17
Simon Orange Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: London, UK Posts: 48	Glen, I totally agree with Adrian, Steven-Marc, Jeff et al. I get DVD-R for 50p a disk (www.scan.co.uk)..surely you can afford to buy a few of these and spread it out over several disks. Keep everthing in its native format.....Don't make DVD-video this will deteriorate the quality dramatically...one compress to make the raw footage DVD and another to make the final edit DVD. (heavily compressed - twice over). Your final .avi/.mov might span a few dvds so your PAL pal (joke, geddit ?) might have to do some piecing together at his end. It may be that your friend hasn't access to the kit to transfer the DV to AVI in that case I suggest that your best bet, as Jeff says, is to beg/borrow/steal even hire a PAL dv deck for the capture and again to lay out the final master. One more thing to bear in mind when you are doing the edit in PAL. If you try to preview on your TV during the edit via the firewire out on your PC/mac your US TV won't display the images from premiere via firewire. It might be that your NTSC cam might even show the PAL images on it's LCD from a firewire input (although the camera won't know what to do the actual PAL tapes). Might or might not be a problem for you. I have worked a great deal at post-production houses both in the UK and the US so I am gonna make an observation that is a little contentious - and I hope I cause no offence. The Brits always feel a little superior using PAL over NTSC (Never The Same Colour twice) - But still, most PAL domestic gear, VHS/DVD/TV can play NTSC fine but most NTSC gear runs a mile when you show it a PAL source. Most UK DVD watchers know what a region 1 DVD is but most US DVD users don't . Try finding a scart (euro) connector on a US TV - Even some of the cheapest UK TVs have an RGB or S-video and stereo audio on the scart. In the UK widescreen TV is the defacto standard now....it is easier to find one than a 4:3 in most shops. Quite the reverse in the US - they may be big TVs but they're mainly 4:3. Most UK broadcasters shoot 16:9 and broadcast native anamorphic 16:9 over digital link (to be honest the digital part is a mixed blessing). This means even soap operas and gameshows. For nearly 3 years ALL UK commercials had to be presented in 16:9 FHA - with all the framing - title/action safe - ramifications. I understand the reasons why the US standard is so prevalent - but it is dissapointing in a country that committed itself to HD broadcasting so many years ago that it hasn't been able to make greater moves towards completing this - and helping to lead the way in broadcasting not drag its feet several years behind. I better run for cover now ! simon

May 6th, 2003, 08:38 AM	#18
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	He he, I totaly agree. Actually a few years back they had this "plan" that in x-amount of years 50% or more networks would have moved to HD broadcast. Did it happen- NO! It's not even worth odering the HD service from the local cable company due to the lack of support. Hence my 36" (4:3) Sony Wega HDtv has to settle on standard resolution images for now. I do however get to reap the benefit of 480p with my progressive scan DVD player. I appreciate all the input you guys have given me. It's been abundantly helpfull. I think I'll work on going the uncompressed DVD route. If I edit in such a way there are simple breaks where he can then capture and line them up on the timeline it shouldn't be a problem. All I have to do is make sure the footage he burns to DVD will be compatable with my DVD-/+R and vice versa. Thanks again everyone!