Shooting at HIGH shutter speeds? at DVinfo.net

Brendan Getchel · April 27th, 2003, 05:36 PM

Are there any problems I should be aware of shooting at high shutter speeds -- say 1/2000 or above?

Don Donatello · April 27th, 2003, 05:43 PM

YES .. lights that operate on a 60hz ballast =flourescents, some st lights, some lights in warehouses- 1/2000 will make these lights look like they are pulsing ( strobing) ...

Alex Knappenberger · April 27th, 2003, 05:58 PM

Yup, and if you shoot at such high shutter speeds, you need lots of light, so it needs to be bright sunlight to get good results. I wouldn't shoot at anything other then 1/60, unless you want to be able to freeze the frame sharply, such as sports and stuff...

Boyd Ostroff · April 27th, 2003, 06:53 PM

I shot some video at 1/1000 which has sort of a choppy look to it, and some other footage that looks fine. Try experimenting around a bit. One reason for using a high shutter speed would be shooting in bright sunlight with a camera that doesn't have a ND filter built in, or shooting something very bright (like the sun and sky). I have some sunset shots which turned out very nicely and would not have been possible without using the high shutter speed in combination with the builtin ND filter.

Brendan Getchel · April 27th, 2003, 07:18 PM

This would always be outdoors. I (we) shoot a lot of ruins, nature, landscapes, architecture, etc. Often times I want to maintain a short DOF, so I keep the aperture open. My GL2 has a built-in ND filter, but I'm not a big fan of sticking more glass in front of a lens unless absolutely necessary to get a certain look.

So, under these qualified circumstances, would you still recommend against fast shutter speeds? I'm trying to figure out how anything could be "choppy" at such high speeds (I know the difference between 30fps and shutter now, thank you very much ;-)

Thanks again.

Ken Tanaka · April 27th, 2003, 07:32 PM

Brendan,
Based on your plans I doubt that you'll encounter 1/1000. Most buildings and (non-winter) landscapes actually are not extremely bright scenes. By all means, use the GL-2's ND filter and don't be afraid of using another on the lens.

Your plans suggest that there will be many slow pans and tilts in your future. I'd recommend experimenting / practicing these movements with a variety of shutter speeds to see what works best for your work.

Have fun!!

Boyd Ostroff · April 27th, 2003, 07:32 PM

At 1/1000 you're just getting a small slice of time in each frame. If there is some fast action, or rapidly changing background it would turn out as a blur when shooting at 1/60 second, making a smooth transition to the next frame. But at 1/1000 you would have a sharp picture. Then in the next frame you have another sharp picture, but the rapidly moving object has "jumped" to a new position. Or at least I *think* that's what happens :-)

But why don't you give it a try for your application and see how you like the results?

Brendan Getchel · April 27th, 2003, 07:57 PM

Ahhh... I'm beginning to see the light (no pun intended).

Good idea. I'll play around.

Ben Lynn · April 27th, 2003, 08:25 PM

I would say that since most of the footage being shot IS stationary, then the higher shutter speed would work just fine.

I'm all for using the shutter to acheive a narrow depth of field and because your doing mostly outdoor shots then the lighting shouldn't be a problem.

The higher shutter might actually give you a crisper, more detailed look of the arcitecture or building that would add the presentation of it.

Good thinking to use the shutter and you should get some good results with it.

Ben Lynn

Bill Pryor · April 28th, 2003, 07:32 PM

A high shutter speed can give you some interesting effects too...for example if there's a fan in the shot, or a closeup of car wheels going by, anything that spins, you can almost freeze the motion of the spinning object and even make it go backwards some times.

Clint Comer · April 30th, 2003, 09:02 PM

Shooting action at fast shutter speeds kicks arse. Remember all those cool battles in Gladiator? Alot of those were shot at very fast shutter speeds which gave it an great look and feel. Plus like said above, you get crisp images of what is going on. ie. blood splattering, dirt flying, cars spinning.

Jon Eriksson · May 1st, 2003, 03:41 AM

Just be very careful with the fast shutter if outside and it starts raining. The forzen fast motion of the rain loos as flickering dead pixels on the screen... Not very nice at all...

Alex Knappenberger · May 1st, 2003, 03:47 PM

These were captured out my window just minutes ago, using 1/1000 and 1/2000 shutter speeds...

http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/2412312.jpg

This one is especially ugly, because I had to brighten it in vegas...

http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/2412313.jpg

Boyd Ostroff · May 1st, 2003, 04:38 PM

I noticed the same sort of problem with sunlight reflecting off ripples in the lake. It has the appearance of noise on the video, possibly also a DV compression issue, however another shot taken a few minutes earlier at 1/60 doesn't have the problem.

Another shot where it was disconcerting was taken from a slow moving car, shooting out the side window with the lake in the background with trees and tall grass moving by in the foreground. The thin branches and grass stalks have sort of a strobelight effect. This might be cool if it was used intentionally, but in this case it sort of looks like you're seeing double (or triple or quadruple). You perceive multiple copies of each branch in an annoying way that makes you want to blink ;-)

Then I have some other footage zoomed all the way in on a dramatic sun as it sets behind the clouds on the horizon. This looked great, and wouldn't have been possible without combining an ND filter with a 1/1000 shutter.

So experiment around a bit and see what works for you.

Alex Knappenberger · May 1st, 2003, 04:40 PM

The noise your talking about might be because you didn't have enough avalible light for such a high shutter speed. Did you have it on auto exposure? Was it over +6dB gain?

April 27th, 2003, 05:36 PM	#1
Brendan Getchel Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Waterbury, CT Posts: 101	Shooting at HIGH shutter speeds? Are there any problems I should be aware of shooting at high shutter speeds -- say 1/2000 or above? __________________ Dumb Guy.

April 27th, 2003, 07:18 PM	#5
Brendan Getchel Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Waterbury, CT Posts: 101	This would always be outdoors. I (we) shoot a lot of ruins, nature, landscapes, architecture, etc. Often times I want to maintain a short DOF, so I keep the aperture open. My GL2 has a built-in ND filter, but I'm not a big fan of sticking more glass in front of a lens unless absolutely necessary to get a certain look. So, under these qualified circumstances, would you still recommend against fast shutter speeds? I'm trying to figure out how anything could be "choppy" at such high speeds (I know the difference between 30fps and shutter now, thank you very much ;-) Thanks again. __________________ Dumb Guy.

April 27th, 2003, 07:32 PM	#6
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Brendan, Based on your plans I doubt that you'll encounter 1/1000. Most buildings and (non-winter) landscapes actually are not extremely bright scenes. By all means, use the GL-2's ND filter and don't be afraid of using another on the lens. Your plans suggest that there will be many slow pans and tilts in your future. I'd recommend experimenting / practicing these movements with a variety of shutter speeds to see what works best for your work. Have fun!! __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

April 27th, 2003, 07:57 PM	#8
Brendan Getchel Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Waterbury, CT Posts: 101	Ahhh... I'm beginning to see the light (no pun intended). Good idea. I'll play around. __________________ Dumb Guy.

April 30th, 2003, 09:02 PM	#11
Clint Comer Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Surprise, AZ Posts: 144	Shooting action at fast shutter speeds kicks arse. Remember all those cool battles in Gladiator? Alot of those were shot at very fast shutter speeds which gave it an great look and feel. Plus like said above, you get crisp images of what is going on. ie. blood splattering, dirt flying, cars spinning. __________________ Vlog On! http://youtube.com/clintus

April 27th, 2003, 05:43 PM	#2
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	YES .. lights that operate on a 60hz ballast =flourescents, some st lights, some lights in warehouses- 1/2000 will make these lights look like they are pulsing ( strobing) ...

April 27th, 2003, 05:58 PM	#3
Alex Knappenberger High School Student Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canton, Ohio, USA Posts: 609	Yup, and if you shoot at such high shutter speeds, you need lots of light, so it needs to be bright sunlight to get good results. I wouldn't shoot at anything other then 1/60, unless you want to be able to freeze the frame sharply, such as sports and stuff...

April 27th, 2003, 06:53 PM	#4
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	I shot some video at 1/1000 which has sort of a choppy look to it, and some other footage that looks fine. Try experimenting around a bit. One reason for using a high shutter speed would be shooting in bright sunlight with a camera that doesn't have a ND filter built in, or shooting something very bright (like the sun and sky). I have some sunset shots which turned out very nicely and would not have been possible without using the high shutter speed in combination with the builtin ND filter.

April 27th, 2003, 08:25 PM	#9
Ben Lynn Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bloomington, IL Posts: 636	I would say that since most of the footage being shot IS stationary, then the higher shutter speed would work just fine. I'm all for using the shutter to acheive a narrow depth of field and because your doing mostly outdoor shots then the lighting shouldn't be a problem. The higher shutter might actually give you a crisper, more detailed look of the arcitecture or building that would add the presentation of it. Good thinking to use the shutter and you should get some good results with it. Ben Lynn

April 28th, 2003, 07:32 PM	#10
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	A high shutter speed can give you some interesting effects too...for example if there's a fan in the shot, or a closeup of car wheels going by, anything that spins, you can almost freeze the motion of the spinning object and even make it go backwards some times.

May 1st, 2003, 03:41 AM	#12
Jon Eriksson Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 42	Just be very careful with the fast shutter if outside and it starts raining. The forzen fast motion of the rain loos as flickering dead pixels on the screen... Not very nice at all... __________________ Real Men do not Preview

May 1st, 2003, 03:47 PM	#13
Alex Knappenberger High School Student Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canton, Ohio, USA Posts: 609	These were captured out my window just minutes ago, using 1/1000 and 1/2000 shutter speeds... http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/2412312.jpg This one is especially ugly, because I had to brighten it in vegas... http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/2412313.jpg

May 1st, 2003, 04:38 PM	#14
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	I noticed the same sort of problem with sunlight reflecting off ripples in the lake. It has the appearance of noise on the video, possibly also a DV compression issue, however another shot taken a few minutes earlier at 1/60 doesn't have the problem. Another shot where it was disconcerting was taken from a slow moving car, shooting out the side window with the lake in the background with trees and tall grass moving by in the foreground. The thin branches and grass stalks have sort of a strobelight effect. This might be cool if it was used intentionally, but in this case it sort of looks like you're seeing double (or triple or quadruple). You perceive multiple copies of each branch in an annoying way that makes you want to blink ;-) Then I have some other footage zoomed all the way in on a dramatic sun as it sets behind the clouds on the horizon. This looked great, and wouldn't have been possible without combining an ND filter with a 1/1000 shutter. So experiment around a bit and see what works for you.

May 1st, 2003, 04:40 PM	#15
Alex Knappenberger High School Student Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canton, Ohio, USA Posts: 609	The noise your talking about might be because you didn't have enough avalible light for such a high shutter speed. Did you have it on auto exposure? Was it over +6dB gain?