Is there a program that does REAL TIME camera switching? at DVinfo.net

David Delaney · February 11th, 2007, 12:08 PM

I have Vanilla Baby, but it only works 320X240 which has real time switching for 2 cameras (although I haven't figured out how to match the audio yet). But I was looking for a program that does it in real time (I know that Vasst Ultimate does it during playback) so I can have a two camera shoot with my laptop and real-time camera switch while recording. I think :"Wirecast" by VARA can do it and I think the resolution is 640X480, but I haven't use it so I can't be sure.
Any suggestions?

Kit Hannah · February 11th, 2007, 01:40 PM

Depending on how many sources you want to switch, Newtek offers a couple of different options. The "Tricaster" is one of them and the "VT[4]" is their flagship - you can edit, switch between multiple cameras (up to 24), do real time graphics, animations, editing, and lots of other cool stuff. It may be a bit pricey for what you're looking for, but often times you can find older used systems for much cheaper. The resolution is 720 x 480. http://www.newtek.com

David Delaney · February 11th, 2007, 03:47 PM

Thanks. I was aware of the hardware solution to the challenge, but I was hoping for a software solution to the real-time camera switching. I have been reading some more info on Varasoft's WireCast and it seems to be able to do this, but I think it is mainly for webcasting, not actual full screen DV work. So I am still looking.

Kit Hannah · February 11th, 2007, 04:53 PM

The biggest problem you have is the number of inputs you can have without doing some sort of hardware interface / upgrade. You will need the necessary inputs to be able to handle incoming sources. Some programs will use an existing firewire interface, but it all depends on how your cameras output that information. If you find something, I too would be interested to know if there is a way to live switch a couple of cameras.

David Delaney · February 11th, 2007, 04:55 PM

I figured I would try it with my laptop with my PCMI card has two firewires. From what I have read on the Varasoft site, it should work that way. I know that Vanilla Baby recognized both a High8 and a mini DV camera on its interface and thus I was able to do camera switching with that program. I have yet to try it with WireCast.

Mark Morikawa · February 12th, 2007, 06:12 PM

i dont trust real time switching software from a pc... for live events anyway.
one hiccup from the VT4 was all it took to scare me away from it.

Kit Hannah · February 13th, 2007, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Morikawa

i dont trust real time switching software from a pc... for live events anyway.
one hiccup from the VT4 was all it took to scare me away from it.

That's a pretty broad statement. What kind of "hiccup"? That's like saying "I'll never trust X-Brand camera because of this one thing that happened".

Bob Grant · February 13th, 2007, 02:12 AM

Live switching can be a real problem and it can start with the camera interface. The 1394 interface can be a few frames behind Live, then the switcher adds a frame or two. Put the feed from the switcher up on screens beside a stage and it can all get pretty horrid.
The only two interfaces that seem to have small enough delays to be workable are the analogue ones, composite, S-Video and component. On the digital side SDI meets the need. For webacasting this isn't an issue, for broadcasting not so much of an issue but you need to be careful where the vision gets fed to, for screens at live events at least. We still hang onto several MX50s for this reason.

Mark Morikawa · February 13th, 2007, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kit Hannah

That's a pretty broad statement. What kind of "hiccup"? That's like saying "I'll never trust X-Brand camera because of this one thing that happened".

the system froze

Mel Abdo · February 13th, 2007, 01:55 PM

Varasoft's Wirecast?

http://www.varasoftware.com/products/wirecast/

Kit Hannah · February 13th, 2007, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Morikawa

the system froze

But was that due to the VT[4] or your computer? People try to grosely under power that system by not using a fast enough computer and trying to get away with it. They have minimum system specs and many times people can't afford or are not willing to buy the necessary components that are essential to running it. Same as saying Vegas froze so I'm not going to use Vegas anymore, and recommending that other people do the same. I have no interest in Newtek products, but to make a blanket statement about a service or product without sharing your ill experiences is pretty much slander, and it is flat out wrong. Newtek makes a good product, and just because YOU don't like it or don't have the appropriate system to run it, don't knock it and not say why. "Hiccup" is a very poor explanation of nothing.

Giroud Francois · February 13th, 2007, 06:36 PM

i think that was just a sample.
the fact is that running a computer involve more complex parts than running an hardware switcher. Statistically, you have more chance to freeze PC, get a blue screen or a simple bug from a PC running a mix of software and hardware than a mixer/switcher.
if you are ready to face a slow reboot of a PC during a live session , i see no problem.
Personally i use a videonics MX-1 that has 4 composite/YC inputs and worked like a charm for several years.
I experienced only one time a crash and it took only 3 secondes to switch off/on the device.

Mark Morikawa · February 13th, 2007, 08:16 PM

^thank you!

Kit, where do you get such great faith in pc's?!

I was using a turnkey VT-4 PC system created for nothing but the VT4. VT-4 is a really good program that can do everything; editing, switching, graphics... all in an interface that I enjoyed. So I did like it. But for live events, there was no way we were going to stick with it when our current video switching hardware almost never fails. Even if Sony Vegas froze, it's an editing program and not made for live switching so it's okay to have hiccups during post-production... it's not LIVE. But I would never recommend a system like VT-4 for live switching if it freezes more than rarely.

So calm down Kit. Maybe you enjoy living on the edge but I and most other people need assurance my live switching hardware doesn't fail.

Kit Hannah · February 13th, 2007, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Morikawa

Kit, where do you get such great faith in pc's?!

Well, in all my years of owning computers, especially in recent years, maybe I have just been lucky, but I have only ever had a blue screen once. In all fairness, I build my own computers and don't load extra stuff that I don't need and I am extremely cautious about going to unknown websites, as well as making sure security is as tight as it can be. Computers can be reliable or unreliable depending on how they're set up and who is using them. Personally, mine are set up fine so they don't crash. And speaking of computers, if anything happens, I can wait the 10 seconds it takes to reboot. A properly set up new computer with ONLY the VT[4] on it should boot very, very quickly using up to date technology.

Remember that even though it won't run windows, your MX-4 still runs hardware and software just like a computer. Yes, it's faster, but the capabilities are more limited. I guess it's a fair trade-off for the time being.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Morikawa

So calm down Kit. Maybe you enjoy living on the edge but I and most other people need assurance my live switching hardware doesn't fail.

I'm Calm, I'm fine. People do need assurance and people are fine to do what they wish. All of us at our company are extremely confident in our computer abilities, so we don't have any problems with that. Sorry you did.

Kyle Self · February 14th, 2007, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Morikawa

^
But for live events, there was no way we were going to stick with it when our current video switching hardware almost never fails. Even if Sony Vegas froze, it's an editing program and not made for live switching so it's okay to have hiccups during post-production... it's not LIVE. But I would never recommend a system like VT-4 for live switching if it freezes more than rarely.

From personal experience of people I know using it freezes are rare. I can remember when working live broadcast having the big old Ampex 3 me switcher and having it lose its mind in the middle of a couple of live events and needing to be rebooted. I can also remember being in the truck for a football game and having a Grass Valley 300 do the same thing.

K

February 11th, 2007, 12:08 PM	#1
David Delaney Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Niagara Ontario Canada Posts: 1,121	Is there a program that does REAL TIME camera switching? I have Vanilla Baby, but it only works 320X240 which has real time switching for 2 cameras (although I haven't figured out how to match the audio yet). But I was looking for a program that does it in real time (I know that Vasst Ultimate does it during playback) so I can have a two camera shoot with my laptop and real-time camera switch while recording. I think :"Wirecast" by VARA can do it and I think the resolution is 640X480, but I haven't use it so I can't be sure. Any suggestions?

February 11th, 2007, 01:40 PM	#2
Kit Hannah Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Fresno, California Posts: 528	Depending on how many sources you want to switch, Newtek offers a couple of different options. The "Tricaster" is one of them and the "VT[4]" is their flagship - you can edit, switch between multiple cameras (up to 24), do real time graphics, animations, editing, and lots of other cool stuff. It may be a bit pricey for what you're looking for, but often times you can find older used systems for much cheaper. The resolution is 720 x 480. http://www.newtek.com

February 11th, 2007, 03:47 PM	#3
David Delaney Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Niagara Ontario Canada Posts: 1,121	Thanks. I was aware of the hardware solution to the challenge, but I was hoping for a software solution to the real-time camera switching. I have been reading some more info on Varasoft's WireCast and it seems to be able to do this, but I think it is mainly for webcasting, not actual full screen DV work. So I am still looking.

February 11th, 2007, 04:53 PM	#4
Kit Hannah Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Fresno, California Posts: 528	The biggest problem you have is the number of inputs you can have without doing some sort of hardware interface / upgrade. You will need the necessary inputs to be able to handle incoming sources. Some programs will use an existing firewire interface, but it all depends on how your cameras output that information. If you find something, I too would be interested to know if there is a way to live switch a couple of cameras.

February 11th, 2007, 04:55 PM	#5
David Delaney Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Niagara Ontario Canada Posts: 1,121	I figured I would try it with my laptop with my PCMI card has two firewires. From what I have read on the Varasoft site, it should work that way. I know that Vanilla Baby recognized both a High8 and a mini DV camera on its interface and thus I was able to do camera switching with that program. I have yet to try it with WireCast.

February 12th, 2007, 06:12 PM	#6
Mark Morikawa Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Aiea, HI Posts: 85	i dont trust real time switching software from a pc... for live events anyway. one hiccup from the VT4 was all it took to scare me away from it.

February 13th, 2007, 02:12 AM	#8
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	Live switching can be a real problem and it can start with the camera interface. The 1394 interface can be a few frames behind Live, then the switcher adds a frame or two. Put the feed from the switcher up on screens beside a stage and it can all get pretty horrid. The only two interfaces that seem to have small enough delays to be workable are the analogue ones, composite, S-Video and component. On the digital side SDI meets the need. For webacasting this isn't an issue, for broadcasting not so much of an issue but you need to be careful where the vision gets fed to, for screens at live events at least. We still hang onto several MX50s for this reason.

February 13th, 2007, 01:55 PM	#10
Mel Abdo Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 42	Varasoft's Wirecast? http://www.varasoftware.com/products/wirecast/

February 13th, 2007, 06:36 PM	#12
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	i think that was just a sample. the fact is that running a computer involve more complex parts than running an hardware switcher. Statistically, you have more chance to freeze PC, get a blue screen or a simple bug from a PC running a mix of software and hardware than a mixer/switcher. if you are ready to face a slow reboot of a PC during a live session , i see no problem. Personally i use a videonics MX-1 that has 4 composite/YC inputs and worked like a charm for several years. I experienced only one time a crash and it took only 3 secondes to switch off/on the device.

February 13th, 2007, 08:16 PM	#13
Mark Morikawa Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Aiea, HI Posts: 85	^thank you! Kit, where do you get such great faith in pc's?! I was using a turnkey VT-4 PC system created for nothing but the VT4. VT-4 is a really good program that can do everything; editing, switching, graphics... all in an interface that I enjoyed. So I did like it. But for live events, there was no way we were going to stick with it when our current video switching hardware almost never fails. Even if Sony Vegas froze, it's an editing program and not made for live switching so it's okay to have hiccups during post-production... it's not LIVE. But I would never recommend a system like VT-4 for live switching if it freezes more than rarely. So calm down Kit. Maybe you enjoy living on the edge but I and most other people need assurance my live switching hardware doesn't fail.