Has Epson Revolutionized the Video Projection Business? at DVinfo.net

Alessandro Machi · January 27th, 2007, 02:46 PM

I just discovered that Epson has a combo video projector/DVD player with built in speakers, all in one. NO WIRES!

Could this product revolutionize the live event video projection business? I usually refer my clients to a video projection specialist, and the client pays around $250-$350 bucks to have a specialist show up with a professional set-up that includes a screen, two speakers, a rackmounted projector with VHS & DVD players, plus a back up.

The Epson Projector is a Projector that looks like a square cube. Could this drive down the price of rentals while simultaneously allowing almost anyone to offer video projection services because, there are NO WIRES! If this product intelligently designed, and works as advertised, I could see charging someone 150 bucks instead of farming out the job and having my client pay double that rate.

Is this a new product or has it been around for a while? Is anyone using the Espon Moviemate 30s? I hope it has video and audio inputs just in case I would want to send a digital tape signal into the unit. If the DVD player ever stopped working or did not like a DVD, would I be able to send in a back up source video feed? Or is this a "disposable" product that once the DVD player goes belly up one just throws the cube away? I hope not, it still costs over a grand. But the ease of set-up is what I find so compelling.

Here is a link to the unit, It's called the Epson MovieMate 30s,

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/c...ref=s0002C4erx

Jeff Chandler · January 27th, 2007, 03:56 PM

It lists multiple inputs in the specs (e.g., VGA, S-vid, etc.)

Alessandro Machi · January 27th, 2007, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Chandler

It lists multiple inputs in the specs (e.g., VGA, S-vid, etc.)

Good catch, I didn't notice the small PDF icon.

Isn't the minimum a video projector should have for a zoom lens is 2-1?
If I read the specs correctly it only has a 1.5 zoom ratio. That could prove to be a hinderance for rental work since sometimes the area where the projector goes is limited.

However, since it is all in one and no external wiring is needed, perhaps that would offset the distance issue. Although, what if the wall is far enough away that one has to put the unit relatively close to the wall, with everyone behind the projector, how would that affect the sound playback? Is the sound cascading in a forward direction but all the people watching would be behind the projector?

Uh oh, that could be an issue.

Marcus Marchesseault · January 27th, 2007, 08:43 PM

That looks like a nifty system for some purposes, but it has a couple of drawbacks.

It is only SD resolution so won't be as useful for projecting computer desktops and it's brightness is also slightly limited at 1200.

As was already pointed out, the best place to put a projector is not always the best place for speakers. Also, for anything but a small conference room you would want a full sound system or it will sound bad. For something like a wedding, you want an amplifier with a few hundred watts and speakers up on stands to reach out over the crowd. That's an amp, speakers, speaker poles, a screen, projector, and all the necessary wires. If you are doing a conference and need a mic for the presenter, that adds a mixer and mic to the system. It takes a guy almost an hour just to set it up and just as much to take it down. Unless that guy has another job in between, you are taking about half his workday. This is why it costs $350 to rent a system.

Bill Davis · January 27th, 2007, 08:47 PM

At 1200 ansi lumens, this puts it at the medium low end of the business projector scale. Also I didn't see a spec on the audio power output - only a "40watt" designation on the $85 add on "subwoofer."

In my mind, this positions the product squarely as what the company says it is - a consumer oriented home theater product designed for a pretty light duty cycle - but one that may serve a business purpose in a pinch - particularly for a small group (under 50-75) presentation in a relatively small room.

Alessandro Machi · January 27th, 2007, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Marchesseault

If you are doing a conference and need a mic for the presenter, that adds a mixer and mic to the system. It takes a guy almost an hour just to set it up and just as much to take it down. Unless that guy has another job in between, you are taking about half his workday. This is why it costs $350 to rent a system.

I wasn't questioning the going rate for a projection rental. I think they earn their money when one factors in the cost of the gear, quickly setting up and tearing down, having a back up, testing the dvd ahead of time. In essence the pay is split five ways, The operator, the equipment, the business owner, Uncle Sam, Storage/Prep.

However, sometimes the companies that supply all this wonderful gear don't even bother to put the speakers on stands, which for my taste is unnacceptable.

If everyone is clustered around this projection system, and the lens allowed one enough flexibility to make sure the projector was either in back or near the back, then the sound probably would be enough for up to 100-150 people, maybe even more.

It sure does reduce liability issues.

Marcus Marchesseault · January 28th, 2007, 01:57 PM

I meant more to illustrate the need for a professional company than to give a cost breakdown. There are so many factors that will immediately bump your needs up from a self-enclosed system to a full-blown audio system that I think that projector will have somewhat limited use. It would be really nice for small conference rooms with less than 50 people, but anything more and the audio will be insufficient. I would recommend a full system for any medium or large audience.

Not using speaker stands is totally unacceptable from a pro. Direct line-of-sight is needed to give everyone clear audio. People's bodies soak up a lot of sound and the back rows won't hear anything clear if the speakers are on the ground.

"It sure does reduce liability issues."

I don't think you will get away from cable runs. In every room, there is at least a 50% chance you will need to run power. If you run one cable, you may as well run them all.

Here is how you reduce your cable runs:

Set up the audio behind the screen and perhaps even the playback device. Send power and a video feed out to the projector. If the playback device can fit in the area of the projector, run the audio from the projector area up to the audio behind the screen. Separating the audio and video systems takes care of the most problematic wires - the speaker wires. Speaker wires are fat and often can't be very long. Audio and video wires will tuck in nicely with the power cable/extension cord/stinger. The power and signal wires are only needed to be as long as the distance from projector to screen.

TAPE DOWN ALL WIRES that run across any possible place a person will step. Cover your wires with longitudinal runs of duct tape if they go across any traffic areas. Duct tape sticks to carpet better than gaffer tape and still doesn't leave a residue on carpet. Leave a bit of slack on both ends of the cable. Some rooms are equipped with tracks/channels over doorways for cables, use them. To make one end of a cable stay really secure to the floor, make it into a small loop (~5") and tape the loop down to the floor in an "X" pattern.

I have never had anyone trip over any cable I have taped down. This is something you must do and budget 10 minutes for taping down cables. Do this before the room starts to fill with people. It is almost impossible to completely eliminate cables, so plan for them and to handle them properly.

Alessandro Machi · January 28th, 2007, 07:01 PM

My experience has been that there is a festive atmosphere at many "celebratory" live events (such as anniversaries and birthdays) and the least amount of intrusion from the projection system, the better.

Sometimes as soon as the video is over, the gathering is invited onto the dance area, which usually is where the screen has been set up. That is a difficult environment for the video projectionist to be undoing cables and things since they are actually "holding up" the next activity.

I think this system can handle more than 50 people. If the projector is in the center of the people watching, the sound should easily reach well over a hundred people. Unless the lens is limiting to the point where it cannot zoom in enough and must be brought forward past most of the group.

Marcus Marchesseault · February 1st, 2007, 12:52 PM

I forgot to mention the best way of all to get rid of cable runs. Use rear projection. If you use rear projection, all of the cables are behind the screen. Only a few real numbskulls have walked behind the screen and I keep all cables out of the way even if they are behind the scenes. Of course, rear projection means that your all-in-one sound system would be far away from the crowd. Honestly, I think pre-planning and practicing the setup would allow you to manage a sound and video system yourself. You don't need huge speakers that take a delivery truck to deliver, just use speaker poles to get the speakers where they are needed.

Waldemar Winkler · February 1st, 2007, 05:03 PM

In my opinion wireless means "without wires". That means the video signal is being transmitted via radio frequency, which also means leaving the "back door open" for contamination of the transmitted signal from some other radio frequency somewhere regardless of how tight the signal lock may be.

I for one would not be willing to risk signal loss at a key moment. Good data cables are a much better bet. Technology does march onwards, however. I would not be surprised to see wireless connections become much more reliable in a few years. Until I see big name production companies using wireless video transmissions on a regular basis in metropolitan areas where wireless communication has massive traffic I'll stay with hardwire connections.

Glenn Davidson · February 1st, 2007, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Marchesseault

Duct tape sticks to carpet better than gaffer tape and still doesn't leave a residue on carpet. L

My experience is that Duct tape from a hardware store is a big mistake. Some will leave a nice gooey line of residue on the carpet or will pull the paint off the wall. Always use pro gaffers tape.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

Jeff Chandler · February 2nd, 2007, 08:42 AM

The Hitachi CPX608 uses 802.11 b/g wireless from a laptop and it works great.

Waldemar Winkler · February 2nd, 2007, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn Davidson

My experience is that Duct tape from a hardware store is a big mistake. Some will leave a nice gooey line of residue on the carpet or will pull the paint off the wall. Always use pro gaffers tape.

Depends. The trick is to locate a cloth-backed duct tape with just the right amount of adhesive. Any kind of duct tape will leave a residue on carpets and floors if left too long. A few hours to a day seems to be a safe amount of time. I avoid applying any kind of tape to walls because it very likely pull the paint off. Because gaffer's tape is so expensive, I purchase 3" wide rolls from a company called "Mil-Spec". A case of 12 rolls now lasts me two to three years at a cost of less then $10 per roll.

Marcus Marchesseault · February 2nd, 2007, 03:49 PM

Jeff, I can't seem to find in the product description of that Hitachi projector that it uses wireless to send video. It only alludes to wireless control. Can it actually get a video signal across 80211 wireless?

Jeff Chandler · February 2nd, 2007, 09:34 PM

Yes, it's a wireless video signal and produces a really nice picture using either 802.11b or g. It also accepts SD cards for operating without a PC. And, yes, I have used one.

Here's a link:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/2xhcwh

Click on the complete specifications pdf. You will see wireless under input/output. It says you can have up to 4 PC's connected wirelessly, but I didn't try that and don't know how it works.

January 27th, 2007, 02:46 PM	#1
Alessandro Machi Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Los Angeles, Ca USA Posts: 553	Has Epson Revolutionized the Video Projection Business? I just discovered that Epson has a combo video projector/DVD player with built in speakers, all in one. NO WIRES! Could this product revolutionize the live event video projection business? I usually refer my clients to a video projection specialist, and the client pays around $250-$350 bucks to have a specialist show up with a professional set-up that includes a screen, two speakers, a rackmounted projector with VHS & DVD players, plus a back up. The Epson Projector is a Projector that looks like a square cube. Could this drive down the price of rentals while simultaneously allowing almost anyone to offer video projection services because, there are NO WIRES! If this product intelligently designed, and works as advertised, I could see charging someone 150 bucks instead of farming out the job and having my client pay double that rate. Is this a new product or has it been around for a while? Is anyone using the Espon Moviemate 30s? I hope it has video and audio inputs just in case I would want to send a digital tape signal into the unit. If the DVD player ever stopped working or did not like a DVD, would I be able to send in a back up source video feed? Or is this a "disposable" product that once the DVD player goes belly up one just throws the cube away? I hope not, it still costs over a grand. But the ease of set-up is what I find so compelling. Here is a link to the unit, It's called the Epson MovieMate 30s, http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/c...ref=s0002C4erx __________________ https://alexlogic.blogspot.com/ Los Angeles Emmy Winner (yes, used a video edit controller and loved doing so.)

January 27th, 2007, 03:56 PM	#2
Jeff Chandler Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Mesa, Az. Posts: 167	It lists multiple inputs in the specs (e.g., VGA, S-vid, etc.) __________________ Jeff Chandler

January 28th, 2007, 07:01 PM	#8
Alessandro Machi Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Los Angeles, Ca USA Posts: 553	My experience has been that there is a festive atmosphere at many "celebratory" live events (such as anniversaries and birthdays) and the least amount of intrusion from the projection system, the better. Sometimes as soon as the video is over, the gathering is invited onto the dance area, which usually is where the screen has been set up. That is a difficult environment for the video projectionist to be undoing cables and things since they are actually "holding up" the next activity. I think this system can handle more than 50 people. If the projector is in the center of the people watching, the sound should easily reach well over a hundred people. Unless the lens is limiting to the point where it cannot zoom in enough and must be brought forward past most of the group. __________________ https://alexlogic.blogspot.com/ Los Angeles Emmy Winner (yes, used a video edit controller and loved doing so.)

February 1st, 2007, 05:03 PM	#10
Waldemar Winkler Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Durango, Colorado, USA Posts: 711	In my opinion wireless means "without wires". That means the video signal is being transmitted via radio frequency, which also means leaving the "back door open" for contamination of the transmitted signal from some other radio frequency somewhere regardless of how tight the signal lock may be. I for one would not be willing to risk signal loss at a key moment. Good data cables are a much better bet. Technology does march onwards, however. I would not be surprised to see wireless connections become much more reliable in a few years. Until I see big name production companies using wireless video transmissions on a regular basis in metropolitan areas where wireless communication has massive traffic I'll stay with hardwire connections. __________________ Waldemar

February 2nd, 2007, 08:42 AM	#12
Jeff Chandler Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Mesa, Az. Posts: 167	The Hitachi CPX608 uses 802.11 b/g wireless from a laptop and it works great. __________________ Jeff Chandler

January 27th, 2007, 08:43 PM	#4
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	That looks like a nifty system for some purposes, but it has a couple of drawbacks. It is only SD resolution so won't be as useful for projecting computer desktops and it's brightness is also slightly limited at 1200. As was already pointed out, the best place to put a projector is not always the best place for speakers. Also, for anything but a small conference room you would want a full sound system or it will sound bad. For something like a wedding, you want an amplifier with a few hundred watts and speakers up on stands to reach out over the crowd. That's an amp, speakers, speaker poles, a screen, projector, and all the necessary wires. If you are doing a conference and need a mic for the presenter, that adds a mixer and mic to the system. It takes a guy almost an hour just to set it up and just as much to take it down. Unless that guy has another job in between, you are taking about half his workday. This is why it costs $350 to rent a system.

January 27th, 2007, 08:47 PM	#5
Bill Davis Trustee Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ 85260 Posts: 1,538	At 1200 ansi lumens, this puts it at the medium low end of the business projector scale. Also I didn't see a spec on the audio power output - only a "40watt" designation on the $85 add on "subwoofer." In my mind, this positions the product squarely as what the company says it is - a consumer oriented home theater product designed for a pretty light duty cycle - but one that may serve a business purpose in a pinch - particularly for a small group (under 50-75) presentation in a relatively small room.

January 28th, 2007, 01:57 PM	#7
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	I meant more to illustrate the need for a professional company than to give a cost breakdown. There are so many factors that will immediately bump your needs up from a self-enclosed system to a full-blown audio system that I think that projector will have somewhat limited use. It would be really nice for small conference rooms with less than 50 people, but anything more and the audio will be insufficient. I would recommend a full system for any medium or large audience. Not using speaker stands is totally unacceptable from a pro. Direct line-of-sight is needed to give everyone clear audio. People's bodies soak up a lot of sound and the back rows won't hear anything clear if the speakers are on the ground. "It sure does reduce liability issues." I don't think you will get away from cable runs. In every room, there is at least a 50% chance you will need to run power. If you run one cable, you may as well run them all. Here is how you reduce your cable runs: Set up the audio behind the screen and perhaps even the playback device. Send power and a video feed out to the projector. If the playback device can fit in the area of the projector, run the audio from the projector area up to the audio behind the screen. Separating the audio and video systems takes care of the most problematic wires - the speaker wires. Speaker wires are fat and often can't be very long. Audio and video wires will tuck in nicely with the power cable/extension cord/stinger. The power and signal wires are only needed to be as long as the distance from projector to screen. TAPE DOWN ALL WIRES that run across any possible place a person will step. Cover your wires with longitudinal runs of duct tape if they go across any traffic areas. Duct tape sticks to carpet better than gaffer tape and still doesn't leave a residue on carpet. Leave a bit of slack on both ends of the cable. Some rooms are equipped with tracks/channels over doorways for cables, use them. To make one end of a cable stay really secure to the floor, make it into a small loop (~5") and tape the loop down to the floor in an "X" pattern. I have never had anyone trip over any cable I have taped down. This is something you must do and budget 10 minutes for taping down cables. Do this before the room starts to fill with people. It is almost impossible to completely eliminate cables, so plan for them and to handle them properly.

February 1st, 2007, 12:52 PM	#9
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	I forgot to mention the best way of all to get rid of cable runs. Use rear projection. If you use rear projection, all of the cables are behind the screen. Only a few real numbskulls have walked behind the screen and I keep all cables out of the way even if they are behind the scenes. Of course, rear projection means that your all-in-one sound system would be far away from the crowd. Honestly, I think pre-planning and practicing the setup would allow you to manage a sound and video system yourself. You don't need huge speakers that take a delivery truck to deliver, just use speaker poles to get the speakers where they are needed.

February 2nd, 2007, 03:49 PM	#14
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	Jeff, I can't seem to find in the product description of that Hitachi projector that it uses wireless to send video. It only alludes to wireless control. Can it actually get a video signal across 80211 wireless?

February 2nd, 2007, 09:34 PM	#15
Jeff Chandler Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Mesa, Az. Posts: 167	Yes, it's a wireless video signal and produces a really nice picture using either 802.11b or g. It also accepts SD cards for operating without a PC. And, yes, I have used one. Here's a link: http://preview.tinyurl.com/2xhcwh Click on the complete specifications pdf. You will see wireless under input/output. It says you can have up to 4 PC's connected wirelessly, but I didn't try that and don't know how it works. __________________ Jeff Chandler