achieving 2:35:1 at DVinfo.net

Andy Graham · November 29th, 2006, 02:21 PM

I was wondering what the best way to achieve 2:35:1 on HDV is?.

If you are shooting HDV (which is 1:85:1) Is the best way to achieve it by putting tape on your monitor to give a 2:35:1 safe zone and then just use the widescreen function in final cuts effcts bin to crop to 2:35:1 ?.

Or is there a way to achieve a true 2:35:1 image by converting files?

I would love to hear any ideas.

Andy.

Marcus Marchesseault · November 29th, 2006, 04:25 PM

There may be a way since anamorphic lenses made to convert 4:3 to 16:9 squish the video down by a ratio similar to the difference between 2.35:1 and 16:9. Theoretically, you could shoot with an anamorphic lens that compresses the wide field of view into the full frame of an HDV camera and then expand it in post to 2.35:1. Someone may have already tried this and will hopefully chime in soon.

Boyd Ostroff · November 29th, 2006, 04:29 PM

It has been discussed before. When the Z1 first came out somebody got the idea to use the anamorphic lens designed for the DVX-100 since it has 72mm threads. They reported that the footage was unacceptably soft since 1920x1080 reveals a lot of flaws which are not visible at 720x480.

And if you did shoot with an anamorphic adaptor, you would need another one on whatever projector used to show the film. Or if viewing on a monitor it would be "squashed" since they don't have any provision for this. And the reality is that however you're going to view it, you will probably be limited to 1920x1080 regardless, so why not just put some black bars on your regular HD image.

If I'm not mistaken, this is what George Lucas does...

Boyd Ostroff · November 29th, 2006, 04:33 PM

Here's a link to that old thread if you're interested:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=42012

Andy Graham · November 29th, 2006, 08:17 PM

Thaks guys, thats a pretty interesting thread. Looks like the concensis is the crop will do the best job.

Ok another thought just popped into my head, If you shot HDV with the intention of transfering to 35mm would the post house want the clean 1:85:1 image and then crop it themselves or would you crop it and then give them it?. I've had no experience with film so that may just be a stupid question!.

Andy.

Boyd Ostroff · November 29th, 2006, 08:58 PM

I have no experience with film transfers, but there are others around here who do so maybe they will chime in. But the difference between 1:85:1 and 16:9 (1.78:1) is pretty small. 1920 / 1.85 = 1038 and (1080-1038) /2 = 21. So in other words, it would be like adding a 21 pixel high black band above and below the image.

There's some interesting info here about film transfers: http://dvfilm.com/faq.htm

Andy Graham · November 30th, 2006, 04:37 AM

Cheers Boyd, that was a good read. There is an interesting comment in the guerilla filmmakers guide (http://www.movietools.com/blueprint.htm ) that says 'thou shalt shoot 25fps even if you shoot on film'. I found this strange considering its a well known fact that film is shot using 24fps, I guess the guerilla hand book wasn't talking about transfers.

Andy.

Bob Hart · November 30th, 2006, 05:34 AM

I tried the 16:9 anamorphic on an FX1 with and without AGUS35 adaptor. The outcome curiously seemed a little less deficient with the groundglass relay but the image quality from either once rendered was not something I would care to hang my shingle on.

As for 25P, the two CP16s and Bolex in the shed are geared for 25 frames per second. 16mm film cameras intended for PAL TV news or broadcast production work were 25FPS to most closely match the PAL frame rate.

Matt Ryan · May 30th, 2008, 03:46 PM

I know this is an old thread but the post house will want the 1.85. untouched copy and they can transfer it to 2.35. Have had to do it before and they actually took my dvd with 720 p footage, set to 1.85.1 and then the arrilaser printed to 2.35 by cropping and adjusting image.

Dana Salsbury · August 19th, 2008, 10:35 AM

Would it make sense, then, to tape the camera's LCD for the 2.35:1 aspect that the post house will cut to?

November 29th, 2006, 02:21 PM	#1
Andy Graham Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Lanark,Scotland Posts: 736	achieving 2:35:1 I was wondering what the best way to achieve 2:35:1 on HDV is?. If you are shooting HDV (which is 1:85:1) Is the best way to achieve it by putting tape on your monitor to give a 2:35:1 safe zone and then just use the widescreen function in final cuts effcts bin to crop to 2:35:1 ?. Or is there a way to achieve a true 2:35:1 image by converting files? I would love to hear any ideas. Andy. __________________ Actor: "where would that light be coming from?" DP: "same place as the music" -Andrew Lesnie-

November 29th, 2006, 08:17 PM	#5
Andy Graham Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Lanark,Scotland Posts: 736	Thaks guys, thats a pretty interesting thread. Looks like the concensis is the crop will do the best job. Ok another thought just popped into my head, If you shot HDV with the intention of transfering to 35mm would the post house want the clean 1:85:1 image and then crop it themselves or would you crop it and then give them it?. I've had no experience with film so that may just be a stupid question!. Andy. __________________ Actor: "where would that light be coming from?" DP: "same place as the music" -Andrew Lesnie-

November 30th, 2006, 04:37 AM	#7
Andy Graham Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Lanark,Scotland Posts: 736	Cheers Boyd, that was a good read. There is an interesting comment in the guerilla filmmakers guide (http://www.movietools.com/blueprint.htm ) that says 'thou shalt shoot 25fps even if you shoot on film'. I found this strange considering its a well known fact that film is shot using 24fps, I guess the guerilla hand book wasn't talking about transfers. Andy. __________________ Actor: "where would that light be coming from?" DP: "same place as the music" -Andrew Lesnie-

August 19th, 2008, 10:35 AM	#10
Dana Salsbury Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 859	Would it make sense, then, to tape the camera's LCD for the 2.35:1 aspect that the post house will cut to? __________________ www.LegacyHDV.com Weddings \| Corporate \| HMC150s \| FCPX \| Encore \| Lion

November 29th, 2006, 04:25 PM	#2
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	There may be a way since anamorphic lenses made to convert 4:3 to 16:9 squish the video down by a ratio similar to the difference between 2.35:1 and 16:9. Theoretically, you could shoot with an anamorphic lens that compresses the wide field of view into the full frame of an HDV camera and then expand it in post to 2.35:1. Someone may have already tried this and will hopefully chime in soon.

November 29th, 2006, 04:29 PM	#3
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	It has been discussed before. When the Z1 first came out somebody got the idea to use the anamorphic lens designed for the DVX-100 since it has 72mm threads. They reported that the footage was unacceptably soft since 1920x1080 reveals a lot of flaws which are not visible at 720x480. And if you did shoot with an anamorphic adaptor, you would need another one on whatever projector used to show the film. Or if viewing on a monitor it would be "squashed" since they don't have any provision for this. And the reality is that however you're going to view it, you will probably be limited to 1920x1080 regardless, so why not just put some black bars on your regular HD image. If I'm not mistaken, this is what George Lucas does...

November 29th, 2006, 04:33 PM	#4
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	Here's a link to that old thread if you're interested: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=42012

November 29th, 2006, 08:58 PM	#6
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	I have no experience with film transfers, but there are others around here who do so maybe they will chime in. But the difference between 1:85:1 and 16:9 (1.78:1) is pretty small. 1920 / 1.85 = 1038 and (1080-1038) /2 = 21. So in other words, it would be like adding a 21 pixel high black band above and below the image. There's some interesting info here about film transfers: http://dvfilm.com/faq.htm

November 30th, 2006, 05:34 AM	#8
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	I tried the 16:9 anamorphic on an FX1 with and without AGUS35 adaptor. The outcome curiously seemed a little less deficient with the groundglass relay but the image quality from either once rendered was not something I would care to hang my shingle on. As for 25P, the two CP16s and Bolex in the shed are geared for 25 frames per second. 16mm film cameras intended for PAL TV news or broadcast production work were 25FPS to most closely match the PAL frame rate.

May 30th, 2008, 03:46 PM	#9
Matt Ryan Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Hollywood, CA. Posts: 110	I know this is an old thread but the post house will want the 1.85. untouched copy and they can transfer it to 2.35. Have had to do it before and they actually took my dvd with 720 p footage, set to 1.85.1 and then the arrilaser printed to 2.35 by cropping and adjusting image.