Dolby 5.1 for us? at DVinfo.net

K. Forman · March 17th, 2003, 12:34 PM

I just got the new copy of Videomaker magazine, and saw a comparison of DVD creation programs. What peaked my interest, was that some of them offer Dolby 5.1 surround encoding. Affordable for even me!

Which brings me to my question- Who is actually doing 5.1 surround, and how is it accomplished? I realise that you would probably need to have multiple mic placement, and seperate channels. How do you take this, and transform it into the 3D enviroment that I love so much?
Thanks

Rob Lohman · March 17th, 2003, 05:08 PM

Usually audio is recorded in mono or stereo (whereby in an orchestra
each instrument is recorded seperately) and then mixed together
in a 3D space.

What they tend to do on movies is get some ambient sound from
a location and mix that in most or all of the channels and then
have dialogue on the center and/or left/right speakers. Music
can be mixed in any of the channels depending on the wishes
etc.

Surround is a lot "less" surround (or less realistic) then you think
it is. Things like bullets flying by or planes flying over you are
done in a very simple way. They just record or create the sound
and then are moved across the 3D sound field with surround
editing programs.

Some orchestral recording are being done in real 3D, but I
haven't heard a lot about these myself...

K. Forman · March 17th, 2003, 08:32 PM

That's the kind of stuff I wanted to know. What kind of 3D audio programs?

Robert Poulton · March 18th, 2003, 01:41 AM

check out Vegas Video 4. It is the first NLE app to have 5.1 audio editing as far as I have seen.

Rob:D

Rob Lohman · March 18th, 2003, 05:14 AM

I think most professionals use Pro Tools (there is also a free
version of this available, but I don't know whether this supports
surround mixing). Robert gave an excellent suggestion, the
new Vegas 4 (you can download a demo from www.sonicfoundry.com)
Editor has support for it as well.

Most more serious audio applications support surround mixing
I think. I can ask an audio friend of mine which applications he
is using for this if you'd like.

David Hurdon · March 18th, 2003, 05:49 AM

I took a one-day seminar on DVD creation for profit during which Mac and PC solutions were demo'd. The Apple authoring tool of choice, DVD Studio Pro, had a great solution for 5.1, calling up an illustration of a surround-sound 6-speaker system on which you could drag and drop audio files. The pc-based DVD Maestro (also Apple-owned) didn't have the feature (but does of course support AC-3) and if other lower end software does I'm not aware of it.

Bill Ravens · March 18th, 2003, 08:00 AM

I'm using Vegas 4 for my surround sound recording. Where I don't have individual mono tracks for each of the surround channels, I downmix a surround mono channel by using an equalizer to "remove" all audio frequencies but the one I want to pass to the surround channel. Gives a result that makes the listener/viewer feel right in the midst of the music.

Ed Smith · March 18th, 2003, 10:55 AM

Another high end editing application with 5.1 surround is Incite Editor 3.0 with a Merging audio Board.

www.inciteonline.com

Just thought I'll add my 2£,

All the best,

Ed Smith

K. Forman · March 18th, 2003, 11:18 AM

Ed, I have seen Incite before, and it looks wonderful. But... Is there an alternative to Incite's $3,100 price? Or, 1,984 BP, as you would say? Sorry, my keyboard doesnt have the L with the squiggles :)

Instead of another NLE system, and having to learn to edit their way, is there a simple and cheap plug-in to create an imersive audio environ?

Ed Smith · March 18th, 2003, 11:26 AM

What NLE are you using, I think there are some surround plug-ins for most packages. But I don't know where to find them.

About 6 months ago there was anarticle about creating a surround mix using Premiere. Ummmm, now where is it.

Ed Smith

Emery Wells · March 18th, 2003, 03:40 PM

what type of file does Dolby Digital 5.1 create? Is this file just imported into any DVD authoring program that can hadle Dolby 5.1?? What about DTS? How do u make that, and what apps can do it??

Robert Poulton · March 18th, 2003, 04:12 PM

Dolby Digital is usually AC-3 from what I understand. You should be able to just import that file into the dvd program. I dont know any of the specifics but Im sure some others can help. I haven't heard of DTS being created within any apps as of yet.

Rob:D

Bill Ravens · March 18th, 2003, 04:17 PM

DTS is still a fairly uncommon audio format and not supported by most audio apps. Stick with AC3, for now.

K. Forman · March 18th, 2003, 07:14 PM

Ed- I use Premiere primarily, occasionaly using Storm. I haven't moved into creating DVDs yet, but will probably make that move before too long. Is any of this audio tech available for VHS as well as DVD?
Thanks

Curtis T. Stoeber · March 19th, 2003, 01:19 AM

I create 5.1 discrete and also Dolby Digital EX soundtracks on my Mac. I do most of the audio mixing within Final Cut Pro. I usually allocate 4 or more tracks per channel, usually just two for the subwoofer, though. The center channel is where I keep most of the dialog. Left and right are used for music and sound effects as are the left and right surrounds. The subwoofer is used to give power to rumbling thunder, gunshots, explosions, whatever. I export each channel combined (all the center channel tracks combined into one, etc etc etc) out as single mono 48khz 16-bit AIFF files. Obviously I have 6 sound files here, each the length of the video program I am editing. I can then use Dolby A.Pack (which only works on Mac OS 9, the OS X version is extremely buggy) to drag and drop the audio files on the channel which they represent. Then I make some settings and encode a single AC3 file. I then burn the video and audio onto a DVD-RW and listen to it in my "home theater" which has properly calibrated levels and make adjustments in the audio levels in Final Cut Pro as necessary.

I have had extrememly good results.

March 17th, 2003, 12:34 PM	#1
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Dolby 5.1 for us? I just got the new copy of Videomaker magazine, and saw a comparison of DVD creation programs. What peaked my interest, was that some of them offer Dolby 5.1 surround encoding. Affordable for even me! Which brings me to my question- Who is actually doing 5.1 surround, and how is it accomplished? I realise that you would probably need to have multiple mic placement, and seperate channels. How do you take this, and transform it into the 3D enviroment that I love so much? Thanks

March 17th, 2003, 05:08 PM	#2
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Usually audio is recorded in mono or stereo (whereby in an orchestra each instrument is recorded seperately) and then mixed together in a 3D space. What they tend to do on movies is get some ambient sound from a location and mix that in most or all of the channels and then have dialogue on the center and/or left/right speakers. Music can be mixed in any of the channels depending on the wishes etc. Surround is a lot "less" surround (or less realistic) then you think it is. Things like bullets flying by or planes flying over you are done in a very simple way. They just record or create the sound and then are moved across the 3D sound field with surround editing programs. Some orchestral recording are being done in real 3D, but I haven't heard a lot about these myself... __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

March 18th, 2003, 05:14 AM	#5
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	I think most professionals use Pro Tools (there is also a free version of this available, but I don't know whether this supports surround mixing). Robert gave an excellent suggestion, the new Vegas 4 (you can download a demo from www.sonicfoundry.com) Editor has support for it as well. Most more serious audio applications support surround mixing I think. I can ask an audio friend of mine which applications he is using for this if you'd like. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

March 18th, 2003, 05:49 AM	#6
David Hurdon Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 484	Dolby 5.1 for us? I took a one-day seminar on DVD creation for profit during which Mac and PC solutions were demo'd. The Apple authoring tool of choice, DVD Studio Pro, had a great solution for 5.1, calling up an illustration of a surround-sound 6-speaker system on which you could drag and drop audio files. The pc-based DVD Maestro (also Apple-owned) didn't have the feature (but does of course support AC-3) and if other lower end software does I'm not aware of it. __________________ Site:http://www.faceliftmarketing.ca Blog:http://www.websitevideo.blogspot.com

March 18th, 2003, 10:55 AM	#8
Ed Smith Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hampshire, England Posts: 1,545	Another high end editing application with 5.1 surround is Incite Editor 3.0 with a Merging audio Board. www.inciteonline.com Just thought I'll add my 2£, All the best, Ed Smith __________________ Ed Smith Hampshire, UK Good things come to those who wait My Skiing web www.Frostytour.co.uk For quick answers Search dvinfo.net \| The best in the business: dvinfo.net Sponsors

March 17th, 2003, 08:32 PM	#3
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	That's the kind of stuff I wanted to know. What kind of 3D audio programs?

March 18th, 2003, 01:41 AM	#4
Robert Poulton Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 245	check out Vegas Video 4. It is the first NLE app to have 5.1 audio editing as far as I have seen. Rob:D

March 18th, 2003, 08:00 AM	#7
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	I'm using Vegas 4 for my surround sound recording. Where I don't have individual mono tracks for each of the surround channels, I downmix a surround mono channel by using an equalizer to "remove" all audio frequencies but the one I want to pass to the surround channel. Gives a result that makes the listener/viewer feel right in the midst of the music.

March 18th, 2003, 11:18 AM	#9
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Ed, I have seen Incite before, and it looks wonderful. But... Is there an alternative to Incite's $3,100 price? Or, 1,984 BP, as you would say? Sorry, my keyboard doesnt have the L with the squiggles :) Instead of another NLE system, and having to learn to edit their way, is there a simple and cheap plug-in to create an imersive audio environ?

March 18th, 2003, 11:26 AM	#10
Ed Smith Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hampshire, England Posts: 1,545	What NLE are you using, I think there are some surround plug-ins for most packages. But I don't know where to find them. About 6 months ago there was anarticle about creating a surround mix using Premiere. Ummmm, now where is it. Ed Smith __________________ Ed Smith Hampshire, UK Good things come to those who wait My Skiing web www.Frostytour.co.uk For quick answers Search dvinfo.net \| The best in the business: dvinfo.net Sponsors

March 18th, 2003, 03:40 PM	#11
Emery Wells Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 38	what type of file does Dolby Digital 5.1 create? Is this file just imported into any DVD authoring program that can hadle Dolby 5.1?? What about DTS? How do u make that, and what apps can do it??

March 18th, 2003, 04:12 PM	#12
Robert Poulton Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 245	Dolby Digital is usually AC-3 from what I understand. You should be able to just import that file into the dvd program. I dont know any of the specifics but Im sure some others can help. I haven't heard of DTS being created within any apps as of yet. Rob:D

March 18th, 2003, 04:17 PM	#13
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	DTS is still a fairly uncommon audio format and not supported by most audio apps. Stick with AC3, for now.

March 18th, 2003, 07:14 PM	#14
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Ed- I use Premiere primarily, occasionaly using Storm. I haven't moved into creating DVDs yet, but will probably make that move before too long. Is any of this audio tech available for VHS as well as DVD? Thanks

March 19th, 2003, 01:19 AM	#15
Curtis T. Stoeber Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Lakewood Colorado USA Posts: 150	I create 5.1 discrete and also Dolby Digital EX soundtracks on my Mac. I do most of the audio mixing within Final Cut Pro. I usually allocate 4 or more tracks per channel, usually just two for the subwoofer, though. The center channel is where I keep most of the dialog. Left and right are used for music and sound effects as are the left and right surrounds. The subwoofer is used to give power to rumbling thunder, gunshots, explosions, whatever. I export each channel combined (all the center channel tracks combined into one, etc etc etc) out as single mono 48khz 16-bit AIFF files. Obviously I have 6 sound files here, each the length of the video program I am editing. I can then use Dolby A.Pack (which only works on Mac OS 9, the OS X version is extremely buggy) to drag and drop the audio files on the channel which they represent. Then I make some settings and encode a single AC3 file. I then burn the video and audio onto a DVD-RW and listen to it in my "home theater" which has properly calibrated levels and make adjustments in the audio levels in Final Cut Pro as necessary. I have had extrememly good results.