HD XDCam,DVCProHD, or HDV at DVinfo.net

Paul M. Diaz · October 5th, 2006, 05:54 PM

I have read some post hear but, I'm still not clear what to do. New to HD... so be gentle!

From what i understand HDV is not what it was cracked up to be, yet JVC,Sony, and Canon have gone this route. I understand the whole GOP issue and editing in HDV seems non efficient. I'm not sure how DVCProHD or HD XDCam(isn't this HDV also?) respond in editing.

I guess my question is, if we had to base buying a camera now, we should go for HDV, just cause the majority have adopted this format. If it were based on a good camera, the HVX seems ideal. You get miniDV, DVCPro50, and DVCProHD.

I don't know what to do, i need a camera soon but which way to go. Oh, and forgot to mention Pany and Sony just tossed AVCHD into the picture just to make it fun. I almost bought an DVX100b last night but I want something that will last at least 3 years.

Mark Utley · October 5th, 2006, 06:17 PM

The format you choose will likely depend on your budget. HDV is the cheapest so many independent shooters go that route.

Paul M. Diaz · October 5th, 2006, 06:30 PM

Thanks Mark, was hoping for a litle more...

I would like to keep my cost for the camera at no more than 5k and then maybe and extra 3k on extras a few months later.

What I need is something that will be flexible enough to shoot news/ent style wraps and I'd like something to do some low budget music videos and maybe a short or 2 for fun.

I just would hate to buy a format that will die in a year. I am tempted to buy a HVX but I'm scared with Canon and Sony bring out so many options, that Panny will shortly put something out that would be cheaper and fit my needs equally.

If I did buy one, I would not purchase any P2 cards till they are cheaper and I don't see a reason why 16g cards are not out yet.

The new Sony V1 looks good and is a bit cheaper and so does the Canon A1.

Marcus Marchesseault · October 5th, 2006, 07:00 PM

I don't believe HD can be done on the HVX without a P2 card. Someone please correct me, but I don't think the HVX200 is an HDV camera in any way. It is only HD in Panasonic's format. It looks like a great camera, but the P2 cards or hard drive storage device are likely mandatory. Unfortunately, this brings the cost up quite a bit until flash goes down in price in a year or two.

I have worked fairly extensively with the Sony FX1 and I have no complaints about HDV. No, it is not perfect or even ideal, but it is so far superior to DV or any SD format that there is no contest (unless SD is your only consideration). I have seen good chromakey and fast-motion video without noticeable artifacts. Also, recent computers and software make editing HDV smooth.

The one thing that might futureproof a current HDV camera is something like HDMI output that is 4:2:2 with no compression. This would mean a computer would need to be nearby, but the 4:2:2 would be most useful in a greenscreen shoot that would probably be in a studio anyway. As portable computers get more powerful and smaller, the recording format of the camera becomes less important as long as it has some sort of uncompressed output capability.

Paul M. Diaz · October 5th, 2006, 07:12 PM

No HVX does not do HDV... The P2 or FS is necessary for HD

as for the HDMI, I believe that the new Sony V1 does have this option

I guess I'll just wait a bit longer or till I have not choice but to rent one!

Mathieu Ghekiere · October 6th, 2006, 03:56 AM

You also have the Canon XH A1 coming up that looks attractive in specs...

Paul M. Diaz · October 8th, 2006, 04:51 PM

Didn't want to start a new post...

Any chance Sony would put out a cam a step higher then the new V1, and use XDCAM media (or maybe a mini version) instead of MiniDV tapes... price it around 5k-6k.

Paul Jefferies · October 8th, 2006, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul M. Diaz

Any chance Sony would put out a cam a step higher then the new V1, and use XDCAM media (or maybe a mini version) instead of MiniDV tapes... price it around 5k-6k.

Sony can currently sell XDCAM kit for 20k+ so why would they want to bring out a 6K version? Maybe they'll bring out a budget version in five years time when another new format is on the block... Sony's whole policy seems to be to keep each format restricted by the market they intend it for, by restricting the features. Thats why they haven't introduced an interchangeable lens "prosumer" HDV camera, because it would bite into their "Semi-Pro" market...

Paul M. Diaz · October 8th, 2006, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Sony's whole policy seems to be to keep each format restricted by the market they intend it for

And you don't think that a V1, a HVX200, and a pdwf330 won't be used in the same "market"?

I'm not asking for 2/3 chips, nor interchangeable lens, just the option to recoed to Blue laser disc. It's not asking that much, you have a hard drive coming out with the new V1. If Sony does this, it would finally compete with HVX200.

Panasonic has a great advantage right now, they released the HVX a while back. I'm sure they will release something new in early 2007 that will kill Sony and Canon, including larger P2 cards.

This is why I find it hard to purchase a camera now and find myself renting for now.

Kevin Shaw · October 8th, 2006, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul M. Diaz

Panasonic has a great advantage right now, they released the HVX a while back. I'm sure they will release something new in early 2007 that will kill Sony and Canon, including larger P2 cards.

What would really give Panasonic an edge would be an HD camera recording to inexpensive non-proprietary flash media, and it sounds like they're proposing to do exactly that with AVCHD-Intra. But until they ship such a camera and editing solutions for it are sorted out, HDV remains the most practical and affordable HD recording format for people on modest budgets. No matter what happens, HDV will continue to be useful for years to come, with widespread editing support today and direct output to HD discs soon a viable distribution option.

HDV is fine for what it is, and hence a good choice for your three-year time frame.

Greg Boston · October 8th, 2006, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul M. Diaz

And you don't think that a V1, a HVX200, and a pdwf330 won't be used in the same "market"?

I'm not asking for 2/3 chips, nor interchangeable lens, just the option to recoed to Blue laser disc. It's not asking that much, you have a hard drive coming out with the new V1. If Sony does this, it would finally compete with HVX200.

Panasonic has a great advantage right now, they released the HVX a while back. I'm sure they will release something new in early 2007 that will kill Sony and Canon, including larger P2 cards.

This is why I find it hard to purchase a camera now and find myself renting for now.

Paul, there will always be something new coming out. If you have a specific project, with specific needs, you would budget for a camera that fits those needs, be it rental or ownership.

Ergonomics also play an important part if you're going to be operating the camera a lot. We have recommended many times to others in past threads to put your hands on the cameras you are considering, if at all possible.

Knowing how much you can actually spend on a camera will pretty much make the decision for you, or at least narrow the search considerably.

-gb-

Paul M. Diaz · October 9th, 2006, 10:33 AM

Thanks for your feedback guys... i think I'll wait a few months to see what Panny does and to read the reviews from the Sony V1 and the Canon A1.

Thanks again!

Paul M. Diaz · October 10th, 2006, 06:26 PM

You see, now that's what I'm talking about... Instead of the 4g and 8g P2, why doesn't sony pull out a mini XDCAM format for the new V1 instead of using a minidv tape that can have drop outs. Technology is there...

Kevin Shaw · October 10th, 2006, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul M. Diaz

You see, now that's what I'm talking about... Instead of the 4g and 8g P2, why doesn't sony pull out a mini XDCAM format for the new V1 instead of using a minidv tape that can have drop outs. Technology is there...

According to the article the technology isn't quite 'there' yet, but it's coming. And didn't Sony already announce plans to sell an AVCHD camcorder based on red-laser discs? Surely they're planning to upgrade that to blue-laser as soon as it's realistic to do so.

In the meantime, consider that today's best off-the-shelf flash memory cards have sufficient sustainable read/write speeds to support the data stream produced by a camera like the HVX200. Panasonic has apparently indicated that they'll use standard flash memory in their professional AVCHD cameras, and that could be an excellent compromise for those who can't afford P2 cards.

Paul M. Diaz · October 10th, 2006, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Shaw

According to the article the technology isn't quite 'there' yet, but it's coming. And didn't Sony already announce plans to sell an AVCHD camcorder based on red-laser discs? Surely they're planning to upgrade that to blue-laser as soon as it's realistic to do so.

In the meantime, consider that today's best off-the-shelf flash memory cards have sufficient sustainable read/write speeds to support the data stream produced by a camera like the HVX200. Panasonic has apparently indicated that they'll use standard flash memory in their professional AVCHD cameras, and that could be an excellent compromise for those who can't afford P2 cards.

I'm not sure AVCHD is the prosumer we want, it is the same as HDV in that it's GOP. I guess will have to wait and see. The HVX200 shoots DVCProHD and can be edited frame by frame. This is what's got me going nuts now. I have to invest in a camera, but can't make up my mind. I have seen the FX1 in action and I wasn't that impressed. The JVC is okay, but in 14 years, I've seen too many break down. I wish Panny would anounce something soon before I just click away and buy a HVX200.

October 5th, 2006, 05:54 PM	#1
Paul M. Diaz New Boot Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hollywood, FL Posts: 18	HD XDCam,DVCProHD, or HDV I have read some post hear but, I'm still not clear what to do. New to HD... so be gentle! From what i understand HDV is not what it was cracked up to be, yet JVC,Sony, and Canon have gone this route. I understand the whole GOP issue and editing in HDV seems non efficient. I'm not sure how DVCProHD or HD XDCam(isn't this HDV also?) respond in editing. I guess my question is, if we had to base buying a camera now, we should go for HDV, just cause the majority have adopted this format. If it were based on a good camera, the HVX seems ideal. You get miniDV, DVCPro50, and DVCProHD. I don't know what to do, i need a camera soon but which way to go. Oh, and forgot to mention Pany and Sony just tossed AVCHD into the picture just to make it fun. I almost bought an DVX100b last night but I want something that will last at least 3 years.

October 5th, 2006, 06:17 PM	#2
Mark Utley Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 479	The format you choose will likely depend on your budget. HDV is the cheapest so many independent shooters go that route. __________________ Mark Utley

October 6th, 2006, 03:56 AM	#6
Mathieu Ghekiere Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,195	You also have the Canon XH A1 coming up that looks attractive in specs... __________________ http://productionsofthe3rdkind.com http://pr3k.com

October 5th, 2006, 06:30 PM	#3
Paul M. Diaz New Boot Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hollywood, FL Posts: 18	Thanks Mark, was hoping for a litle more... I would like to keep my cost for the camera at no more than 5k and then maybe and extra 3k on extras a few months later. What I need is something that will be flexible enough to shoot news/ent style wraps and I'd like something to do some low budget music videos and maybe a short or 2 for fun. I just would hate to buy a format that will die in a year. I am tempted to buy a HVX but I'm scared with Canon and Sony bring out so many options, that Panny will shortly put something out that would be cheaper and fit my needs equally. If I did buy one, I would not purchase any P2 cards till they are cheaper and I don't see a reason why 16g cards are not out yet. The new Sony V1 looks good and is a bit cheaper and so does the Canon A1.

October 5th, 2006, 07:00 PM	#4
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	I don't believe HD can be done on the HVX without a P2 card. Someone please correct me, but I don't think the HVX200 is an HDV camera in any way. It is only HD in Panasonic's format. It looks like a great camera, but the P2 cards or hard drive storage device are likely mandatory. Unfortunately, this brings the cost up quite a bit until flash goes down in price in a year or two. I have worked fairly extensively with the Sony FX1 and I have no complaints about HDV. No, it is not perfect or even ideal, but it is so far superior to DV or any SD format that there is no contest (unless SD is your only consideration). I have seen good chromakey and fast-motion video without noticeable artifacts. Also, recent computers and software make editing HDV smooth. The one thing that might futureproof a current HDV camera is something like HDMI output that is 4:2:2 with no compression. This would mean a computer would need to be nearby, but the 4:2:2 would be most useful in a greenscreen shoot that would probably be in a studio anyway. As portable computers get more powerful and smaller, the recording format of the camera becomes less important as long as it has some sort of uncompressed output capability.

October 5th, 2006, 07:12 PM	#5
Paul M. Diaz New Boot Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hollywood, FL Posts: 18	No HVX does not do HDV... The P2 or FS is necessary for HD as for the HDMI, I believe that the new Sony V1 does have this option I guess I'll just wait a bit longer or till I have not choice but to rent one!

October 8th, 2006, 04:51 PM	#7
Paul M. Diaz New Boot Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hollywood, FL Posts: 18	Didn't want to start a new post... Any chance Sony would put out a cam a step higher then the new V1, and use XDCAM media (or maybe a mini version) instead of MiniDV tapes... price it around 5k-6k.

October 9th, 2006, 10:33 AM	#12
Paul M. Diaz New Boot Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hollywood, FL Posts: 18	Thanks for your feedback guys... i think I'll wait a few months to see what Panny does and to read the reviews from the Sony V1 and the Canon A1. Thanks again!

October 10th, 2006, 06:26 PM	#13
Paul M. Diaz New Boot Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hollywood, FL Posts: 18	You see, now that's what I'm talking about... Instead of the 4g and 8g P2, why doesn't sony pull out a mini XDCAM format for the new V1 instead of using a minidv tape that can have drop outs. Technology is there...