DV for TV

Ash Greyson · June 19th, 2006, 05:17 PM

I am not talking native DV footage, I am talking footage for a broadcast commercial. You dont want your graphics, text, animations, etc. rendered in the DV codec. If you are cutting JUST DV footage with minimal effects, the difference is marginal but heavy CC, graphics, etc. just look MUCH better broadcast when edited uncompressed than DV. Forget what you see on your screen. Make a DV tape, then dub it to Beta, then dub that to 3/4" then make a copy of that, then broadcast it, decode it with your cable box and watch it on your TV. Anyone will notive the difference between the DV footage and the uncompressed polish edit that went straight to Beta...

ash =o)

Chris Hocking · June 19th, 2006, 10:52 PM

I have no idea how NLE software works internally. What I do know is this: In Final Cut Pro (I presume most NLE's work the same way), if I have DV Sequence with DV footage plus text overlays, colour corrected footage, special effects, etc. the footage looks bad when exported as DV. The text looks blurred, and basically, very ugly. However, when I export the same sequence as an uncompressed file (or something of higher quality than DV, such as JPEG), the DV footage looks the same, however the text and special effects look perfect (ie. they look exactly as they did in Final Cut Pro).

With that said, I can only presume when you export a sequence in Final Cut Pro, it re-renders the footage to the quality you are exporting it as (ie. in the above example, it re-rendered the text to match an uncompressed quality, as opposed to a DV quality). So, as far as I can tell, in Final Cut Pro at least, you don't need to start with an uncompressed timeline. Final Cut Pro will adjust the quality of any "special objects" (such as text), to match your output settings. I'm no expert, and maybe I'm missing something, but this it what I've found from personal experience.

But, yeah, to cut a long story short, Ash is right (in my opinion). If you have any "special objects" in your timeline (such as text), don't export your movie as DV. Use something of higher quality, such as uncompressed or JPEG. The actual footage as captured from the camera will look the same, however, any filters/generators (ie. "special objects") you've brought into the timeline, will match the quality of whatever your output/export settings are. If you export as uncompressed, they will look perfect (ie. the maximum quality that the NLE can output).

Maybe PPro-2 acts different to FCP, and you have to start with an uncompresed timeline, hence Ash's advice to edit in an uncompressed timeline. I'm not sure. But well worth investigating further...

Hope this helps! ~ Chris!

Anthony Marotti · June 20th, 2006, 09:34 AM

It's a little fuzzy...

But what if you are not rendering a file, what if you are just exporting to tape... or DVD?

I am only using PPro so I'm not sure about the FCP workflow, but I too notice degrading in my titles and would like to learn a workflow that would be better for graphics, while still using DV footage.

I get exporting to a file in uncompressed, but it seems that if you export directly to tape or DVD, you would avoid that step all together, and how can you get anything better than your timeline???

So if I am going to use DV footage and I want to distribute my project on DVD, How do I get the best titles and graphics out of PPro-2?

thanks for your Patience!!

Dean Sensui · June 20th, 2006, 01:59 PM

Regarding the quality of DV, Here's a spot that was shot with a Sony PD-170 and processed for color and diffusion.

http://www.hawaiigoesfishing.com/vid...island_lei.mov

(Quicktime, H.264 codec)

Every shot was lighted, including the outdoor shot that featured reflector fill.

The company changed its name after we completed the commercial, so the sign on the building in the background (when the basket is handed to the guy in the car) had to be hand tracked and replaced. Took about 90 minutes to fine tune it. But it was a lot easier than doing a re-shoot.

The sign replacement was done in After Effects. I moved the original media file into AE to do the work, rather than export a copy of the file. If I have to handle a lot of clips, I'll use Automatic Duck to handle the process of importing from FCP to AE.

June 20th, 2006, 09:34 AM	#18
Anthony Marotti Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 263	It's a little fuzzy... But what if you are not rendering a file, what if you are just exporting to tape... or DVD? I am only using PPro so I'm not sure about the FCP workflow, but I too notice degrading in my titles and would like to learn a workflow that would be better for graphics, while still using DV footage. I get exporting to a file in uncompressed, but it seems that if you export directly to tape or DVD, you would avoid that step all together, and how can you get anything better than your timeline??? So if I am going to use DV footage and I want to distribute my project on DVD, How do I get the best titles and graphics out of PPro-2? thanks for your Patience!! __________________ AM

June 20th, 2006, 01:59 PM	#19
Dean Sensui Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 2,054	Regarding the quality of DV, Here's a spot that was shot with a Sony PD-170 and processed for color and diffusion. http://www.hawaiigoesfishing.com/vid...island_lei.mov (Quicktime, H.264 codec) Every shot was lighted, including the outdoor shot that featured reflector fill. The company changed its name after we completed the commercial, so the sign on the building in the background (when the basket is handed to the guy in the car) had to be hand tracked and replaced. Took about 90 minutes to fine tune it. But it was a lot easier than doing a re-shoot. The sign replacement was done in After Effects. I moved the original media file into AE to do the work, rather than export a copy of the file. If I have to handle a lot of clips, I'll use Automatic Duck to handle the process of importing from FCP to AE. __________________ Dean Sensui Exec Producer, Hawaii Goes Fishing

June 19th, 2006, 05:17 PM	#16
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	I am not talking native DV footage, I am talking footage for a broadcast commercial. You dont want your graphics, text, animations, etc. rendered in the DV codec. If you are cutting JUST DV footage with minimal effects, the difference is marginal but heavy CC, graphics, etc. just look MUCH better broadcast when edited uncompressed than DV. Forget what you see on your screen. Make a DV tape, then dub it to Beta, then dub that to 3/4" then make a copy of that, then broadcast it, decode it with your cable box and watch it on your TV. Anyone will notive the difference between the DV footage and the uncompressed polish edit that went straight to Beta... ash =o)

June 19th, 2006, 10:52 PM	#17
Chris Hocking Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 595	I have no idea how NLE software works internally. What I do know is this: In Final Cut Pro (I presume most NLE's work the same way), if I have DV Sequence with DV footage plus text overlays, colour corrected footage, special effects, etc. the footage looks bad when exported as DV. The text looks blurred, and basically, very ugly. However, when I export the same sequence as an uncompressed file (or something of higher quality than DV, such as JPEG), the DV footage looks the same, however the text and special effects look perfect (ie. they look exactly as they did in Final Cut Pro). With that said, I can only presume when you export a sequence in Final Cut Pro, it re-renders the footage to the quality you are exporting it as (ie. in the above example, it re-rendered the text to match an uncompressed quality, as opposed to a DV quality). So, as far as I can tell, in Final Cut Pro at least, you don't need to start with an uncompressed timeline. Final Cut Pro will adjust the quality of any "special objects" (such as text), to match your output settings. I'm no expert, and maybe I'm missing something, but this it what I've found from personal experience. But, yeah, to cut a long story short, Ash is right (in my opinion). If you have any "special objects" in your timeline (such as text), don't export your movie as DV. Use something of higher quality, such as uncompressed or JPEG. The actual footage as captured from the camera will look the same, however, any filters/generators (ie. "special objects") you've brought into the timeline, will match the quality of whatever your output/export settings are. If you export as uncompressed, they will look perfect (ie. the maximum quality that the NLE can output). Maybe PPro-2 acts different to FCP, and you have to start with an uncompresed timeline, hence Ash's advice to edit in an uncompressed timeline. I'm not sure. But well worth investigating further... Hope this helps! ~ Chris!