30p to 24p? at DVinfo.net

Corey Aumiller · April 10th, 2006, 05:04 PM

I recently shot about 7 hours of footage for my Senior Thesis Film on an XL2. Somehow I knocked the switch from 24p to 30p for about six minutes worth of footage. What is the best way to manipulate this footage so it looks like 24p and doesn't stick out like a sore thumb? (It's all essential footage, so I can't just scrap it!)

Thanks guys and gals.

Corey

Joshua Provost · April 11th, 2006, 11:09 AM

Corey,

Does the sound have to sync? If not, then the easiest way is to just Interpret the footage as 24p. It will run 25% longer, and look slightly slo-motion. I do this all the time as an effect or for insert shots, since 60i->30p->24p looks much cleaner than 60i->24p.

If you do have to sync the sound, then it's tougher. The 24p conversion programs all tell you not to shoot 30p under any circumstances. Twixtor/FieldKit might be better. It requires you to deinterlace prior to changing frame rates anyway, so maybe it can handle it. I've never tried.

Josh

Patrick King · April 11th, 2006, 01:56 PM

Corey,

If you are editing in Vegas, just drop it on the timeline and it will match so very close that I bet you could play "Stump the Chump" with friends and tell them that one clip in this 5 minute segment is 30p instead of 24p and I'll bet you'll stump many of them.

Now your film instructor might be able to tell the difference, but then only if you tell him it is somehow different, otherwise, it'll look like progressive footage "filmed in better light".

Shane Ross · April 11th, 2006, 02:24 PM

What edit system are you using?

For FCP there is www.nattress.com Film Effects for $99. But, FCP can also do the drop in the timeline and render and it will match the 24P stuff well.

Try it.

Patrick King · April 11th, 2006, 06:02 PM

Oops,
Corey, I should have looked at your profile. With a G5 you are obviously NOT using Vegas. If FCP will mix media like Vegas, just throw it on the timeline where you were going to place it and I doubt anyone will notice the diff when you render the final product.

Riley Harmon · April 11th, 2006, 06:42 PM

twixtor is the way to do it, check cinema tools as well

Don Donatello · April 11th, 2006, 09:53 PM

edit the project in a 29.97 time line ..
IMO if you do not want it to stick out like a sore thumb do NOTHING.
the 24p must be 29.97 for NTSC playback .. it was recorded to tape with pull down so it's already at 29.97 ... so the 30p plays back at 30p(29.97) ..

Ash Greyson · April 12th, 2006, 11:07 AM

Don is correct... 29.97 interlaced to 24P is easy but TRUE 30P to 24P looks like junk. I assume the people saying it looks good are REALLY talking about 29.97 interlaced to 24P.

There is no practical way to overcome it because in order to get 30 to 24 they use the interlace fields to do some sort of blend. If you go 30P to 24P you will just lose 6 frames which looks like junk. Edit the whole thing in 29.97, which is where it will end up anyway.

I love the look of 30P but you should never use it for anything other than NTSC 29.97 delivery, it does not bump to film or transfer to 24P or PAL without looking very poor.

ash =o)

Corey Aumiller · April 13th, 2006, 09:23 PM

Thanks everyone, you've given me some food for thought. Sounds like there's no perfect fix... that's what I was afraid of. If I can get ahold of some of the aformentioned software, I'll see how it looks, otherwise I may just have two minutes that look more like video. Next time I'll pay more attention to my camera settings!

Derrick A.Jones · April 16th, 2006, 04:55 PM

Actually no. 30p is a lot better looking than 24p. I just finished film school and we do everything in 30p because 24p sometimes when you compress it. starts to look like bad. and i have noticed that 30p keeps it quality when compressin it. now dont get me wrong 24p is great and i have done a lot of projects in 24p. I guess what is boils down to it wich one you like better you really cant go wrong with either one of them.

David Jimerson · April 16th, 2006, 05:08 PM

That's pretty subjective.

Any framerate -- 60i, 24p, 30p -- has its shining uses. 60i looks better for sports and reality shows. 24p tends to look better for drama, narrative film work, etc.. 30p is a nice compromise between the two.

I strongly disagree that 24p "starts to look bad" when you compress it, if you do it properly. If it looked great to start with, then it should look great when you're done, else you did a poor compression job.

Derrick A.Jones · April 16th, 2006, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Jimerson

That's pretty subjective.

Any framerate -- 60i, 24p, 30p -- has its shining uses. 60i looks better for sports and reality shows. 24p tends to look better for drama, narrative film work, etc.. 30p is a nice compromise between the two.

I strongly disagree that 24p "starts to look bad" when you compress it, if you do it properly. If it looked great to start with, then it should look great when you're done, else you did a poor compression job.

yeah you have a very good point. this was just a suggestion that was made from one of my teachers. probably cause they wer not doing something right.

April 10th, 2006, 05:04 PM	#1
Corey Aumiller Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Columbus Ohio Posts: 44	30p to 24p? I recently shot about 7 hours of footage for my Senior Thesis Film on an XL2. Somehow I knocked the switch from 24p to 30p for about six minutes worth of footage. What is the best way to manipulate this footage so it looks like 24p and doesn't stick out like a sore thumb? (It's all essential footage, so I can't just scrap it!) Thanks guys and gals. Corey

April 11th, 2006, 11:09 AM	#2
Joshua Provost Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 493	Corey, Does the sound have to sync? If not, then the easiest way is to just Interpret the footage as 24p. It will run 25% longer, and look slightly slo-motion. I do this all the time as an effect or for insert shots, since 60i->30p->24p looks much cleaner than 60i->24p. If you do have to sync the sound, then it's tougher. The 24p conversion programs all tell you not to shoot 30p under any circumstances. Twixtor/FieldKit might be better. It requires you to deinterlace prior to changing frame rates anyway, so maybe it can handle it. I've never tried. Josh __________________ Owner/Operator, 727 Records Co-Founder, Matter of Chance Productions Blogger, Try Avoidance

April 11th, 2006, 01:56 PM	#3
Patrick King Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Enterprise, AL Posts: 857	Corey, If you are editing in Vegas, just drop it on the timeline and it will match so very close that I bet you could play "Stump the Chump" with friends and tell them that one clip in this 5 minute segment is 30p instead of 24p and I'll bet you'll stump many of them. Now your film instructor might be able to tell the difference, but then only if you tell him it is somehow different, otherwise, it'll look like progressive footage "filmed in better light". __________________ Fear No Weevil!

April 11th, 2006, 06:02 PM	#5
Patrick King Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Enterprise, AL Posts: 857	Oops, Corey, I should have looked at your profile. With a G5 you are obviously NOT using Vegas. If FCP will mix media like Vegas, just throw it on the timeline where you were going to place it and I doubt anyone will notice the diff when you render the final product. __________________ Fear No Weevil!

April 13th, 2006, 09:23 PM	#9
Corey Aumiller Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Columbus Ohio Posts: 44	Thanks everyone Thanks everyone, you've given me some food for thought. Sounds like there's no perfect fix... that's what I was afraid of. If I can get ahold of some of the aformentioned software, I'll see how it looks, otherwise I may just have two minutes that look more like video. Next time I'll pay more attention to my camera settings! Last edited by Corey Aumiller; April 13th, 2006 at 10:10 PM.

April 11th, 2006, 02:24 PM	#4
Shane Ross Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 539	What edit system are you using? For FCP there is www.nattress.com Film Effects for $99. But, FCP can also do the drop in the timeline and render and it will match the 24P stuff well. Try it.

April 11th, 2006, 06:42 PM	#6
Riley Harmon Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 424	twixtor is the way to do it, check cinema tools as well

April 11th, 2006, 09:53 PM	#7
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	edit the project in a 29.97 time line .. IMO if you do not want it to stick out like a sore thumb do NOTHING. the 24p must be 29.97 for NTSC playback .. it was recorded to tape with pull down so it's already at 29.97 ... so the 30p plays back at 30p(29.97) ..

April 12th, 2006, 11:07 AM	#8
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	Don is correct... 29.97 interlaced to 24P is easy but TRUE 30P to 24P looks like junk. I assume the people saying it looks good are REALLY talking about 29.97 interlaced to 24P. There is no practical way to overcome it because in order to get 30 to 24 they use the interlace fields to do some sort of blend. If you go 30P to 24P you will just lose 6 frames which looks like junk. Edit the whole thing in 29.97, which is where it will end up anyway. I love the look of 30P but you should never use it for anything other than NTSC 29.97 delivery, it does not bump to film or transfer to 24P or PAL without looking very poor. ash =o)

April 16th, 2006, 04:55 PM	#10
Derrick A.Jones Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: St. Petersburg,FL Posts: 94	Actually no. 30p is a lot better looking than 24p. I just finished film school and we do everything in 30p because 24p sometimes when you compress it. starts to look like bad. and i have noticed that 30p keeps it quality when compressin it. now dont get me wrong 24p is great and i have done a lot of projects in 24p. I guess what is boils down to it wich one you like better you really cant go wrong with either one of them.

April 16th, 2006, 05:08 PM	#11
David Jimerson Jubal 28 Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 872	That's pretty subjective. Any framerate -- 60i, 24p, 30p -- has its shining uses. 60i looks better for sports and reality shows. 24p tends to look better for drama, narrative film work, etc.. 30p is a nice compromise between the two. I strongly disagree that 24p "starts to look bad" when you compress it, if you do it properly. If it looked great to start with, then it should look great when you're done, else you did a poor compression job. __________________ www.wrightsvillebeachstudios.com