NLE Discussion

Doug Boze · February 8th, 2006, 11:55 PM

If I were starting from scratch and money were no object, I'd at least look at a G5 and FCP.

As it is, I have PPro 1.51, AE 6.5, Encore 1.51 and Audition 1.5 on my 2.8 GHz HT Intel mobo with 2 GB RAM.

I'll just address a couple of things that were mentioned earlier, rendering and color correction. A short while back I got a Matrox RT.X100 Extreme Pro real-time processor card for this system. All I can say is, wow! All rendering is literally in real time, which is to say, there ain't none! The Matrox plug-ins include just about any color correction and video effect known, all thoroughly customizeable and saveable, which is great if you come up with a look or style for a project and want to keep it. All done in real-time and with direct WYSIWYG output to an NTSC monitor. Overlays, I think up to four at a time, are also real-time. No preview files!

In fact, it's possible to edit a program timeline with overlays, color correction, titles, transitions, and special effects and simply play it out to tape without rendering first.

It also has a built-in hardware MPEG-2 encoder which also outputs your program to disk in DVD-video-ready format in real-time. On my system, it used to take 4.5 - 5 minutes of processing for each minute of video. Granted, Encore still has to transcode the audio, but that's awfully short work.

The RT.X100 also features direct WYSIWYG output from AE and Encore. It does nothing to accelerate AE's rendering, though.

These can be had new off eBay for about $550.

Roger Rosales · February 8th, 2006, 11:56 PM

Actually, now that you mention it, the titler in PP is awesome.

Doug, that's some pretty impressive stuff you're telling me, but how much did that whole system run you?

Chris Barcellos · February 8th, 2006, 11:58 PM

What concerns me about becoming dedicated to the MAC OS is that other assets that you might use on a PC won't be available on a MAC. Favorite programs, and such that I use now, won't be there. Thus it would seem that the change to MAC should not be a decision to abandon the PC OS. They can coexist. Why not have both.

Nick Weeks · February 9th, 2006, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

What concerns me about becoming dedicated to the MAC OS is that other assets that you might use on a PC won't be available on a MAC. Favorite programs, and such that I use now, won't be there. Thus it would seem that the change to MAC should not be a decision to abandon the PC OS. They can coexist. Why not have both.

I agree... if I switch to Mac, I'll keep my PC for sure... one being Peachtree Accounting, which won't run on a Mac (unless you use Virtual PC, but that's another topic)

Roger Rosales · February 9th, 2006, 12:09 AM

Very good point Chris, I use many freeware programs that assist me in my daily video editing and encoding process.

I live and breath AVIsynth, huffyuv, and Xvid. I use VirtualDub. I'm not even sure if these are available for Mac yet. Since I never owned a Mac, I never really bothered finding out if they are, maybe it's time.

I know a while ago the developers of DivX came out with a Mac version, but I never heard too much about that. It's pretty dead in the mac world.

I've also heard that the equivalent to Huffyuv are .mov files.

This too is a huge factor in my decision making. Can I part with the current river of usefull freeware on the net that help me so much in post and can I find something similar on the mac or deal without 'em?

It's so difficult.

Glenn Chan · February 9th, 2006, 01:48 AM

Quote:

A few hundred thousand eh, better start saving up - in all seriousness though, how do people that know how to use Lustre working for top studios learn how to use it? I'm assuming there have to be courses somewhere, even if someone will never be able to afford it on their own budget, it would be nice to know. The university I attend is one of the only few in Ontario, Canada that have a Film production program, and I haven't heard about Lustre around here.
Sorry to take this off topic, I'm just really curious about this elite software I've heard so many people speak of. What's all the extra hardware for?

Autodesk or Discreet (who own Lustre) probably offer some sort of training program for their customers. I couldn't imagine them not offering it. It may be a moot point though, because if you really want to get into this, there are a few options:

A- Intern/work at a facility that has a Lustre. I'm not sure if there are any in Ontario. You could probably call/email Discreet and ask their sales rep.
Usually at jobs like these, you have to work your way up.

If you're really interested in this kind of thing, I would probably start looking for an entry-level position (i.e. internship, or any paid job in the facility) and drop out of university if need be. A university degree is pretty useless if you want to be a colorist. Maybe it'll help you land an entry-level position... but if you can land the entry-level position anyways, then you don't need the degree.

B- Work for Discreet doing tech support for Lustre.

??C- Know people with lots of money who would invest in a Lustre. i.e. rich relatives, or just greedy people. Some people get their start this way, although you kind of have to have a background.

I think there is like one or two programs in the States that teach telecine... (?New York Film Academy, N.Y.U., Columbia, Collins College?) but they are just like a single course that covers the basics. So you'd land an entry-level job with that education anyways.

2- If you don't want to become a colorist but just want to know about this stuff, then just talk to some colorists.

Mike Moncrief · February 9th, 2006, 08:12 AM

Hello,

I am in the process of setting up to learn a different NLE myself..I am a Vegas user.. and I think it is a superb and underrated tool..It is my tool of choice..But i just picked up a Mac, and i will soon be learning Final Cut Pro.. My reasons basicly have to do with the marketplace.. I do freelance work right now, and when i look at the market, a large majority of the edit jobs i see require FCP and mac skills.Yes there are quite a few Avid jobs out there to, no doubt.. But I see tons of FCP work.. i have never owned a Mac before.. (I do now) .. I am somewhat concerned on the hurdles of making the transition.. And I already am juggling to many pieces of software in my head.. But I need add to my skill set and to make myself more marketable in the industry..

Just my 2 cents..
mike m.

Richard Alvarez · February 9th, 2006, 08:38 AM

I cut on Avid on a PC, but learned NLE on Premiere six or seven years ago. I've also done a little bit of work on FCP.

For the record, Premiere preceeded FCP in development, and one of the developers left Adobe to go develop FCP. The interface between FCP and Premiere is much more similar than say, Premiere to AVID.

In terms of job availability, FCP is most often requested by 'indy' production companies and ad agencies, AVID is most often requested by finishing houses and studios. There is a bit of overlap however. Just keep checking Mandy.com to see, or even Craigslist.

Each program has strengths and weaknesses. After reading your posts and comments, my recommendation is to switch to FCP and Mac, keep your PC for 'office' programs. Here's why -

Going from Premiere to FCP will be easier than going from Premiere to AVID. Going to a MAC will STILL allow you to buy/learn AVID at a later date if you choose. It sounds like you are more likely to be looking for work with an add agency or indy house, than a production studio or television/broadcast network - So statistically you'll be slightly better off knowing FCP.

That's my vote.

Doug Boze · February 9th, 2006, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Rosales

Doug, that's some pretty impressive stuff you're telling me, but how much did that whole system run you?

I really can't recall, and anyway, I've added so much to it since. I've had it for about a year, or maybe longer. It was built for something else, which never got off the ground.

Current hardware: Intel D865GBF P4 mobo with 2GB RAM and P4 2.8 GHz HT CPU; nVidia GeForce FX 5200 video adapter which feeds a pair of CTL 15" monitors; Matrox RT.X100 Extreme Pro with DV I/O and analog breakout box feeding a Sony 12" studio monitor; Promise Fasttrak 100 supporting striped array of two Seagate Barracudas (160GB total capacity); Adaptec LVD SCSI host adapter supporting an internal Quantum 4000 DLT III drive (for DVD mastering) and an external Quantum VS80 DLT IV drive (for archiving); Pioneer 8x DVD burner; crappy Logitech keyboard; great Logitech TrackMan Wheel; Contour Shuttle Pro2 edit controller; audio and LAN on mobo; Altec Lansing speakers; Sony ECM-50 lavalier mic; and a Sony DSR-25 DVCAM deck. I think that's pretty much it.

February 8th, 2006, 11:55 PM	#16
Doug Boze Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Auburn, Washington Posts: 218	If I were starting from scratch and money were no object, I'd at least look at a G5 and FCP. As it is, I have PPro 1.51, AE 6.5, Encore 1.51 and Audition 1.5 on my 2.8 GHz HT Intel mobo with 2 GB RAM. I'll just address a couple of things that were mentioned earlier, rendering and color correction. A short while back I got a Matrox RT.X100 Extreme Pro real-time processor card for this system. All I can say is, wow! All rendering is literally in real time, which is to say, there ain't none! The Matrox plug-ins include just about any color correction and video effect known, all thoroughly customizeable and saveable, which is great if you come up with a look or style for a project and want to keep it. All done in real-time and with direct WYSIWYG output to an NTSC monitor. Overlays, I think up to four at a time, are also real-time. No preview files! In fact, it's possible to edit a program timeline with overlays, color correction, titles, transitions, and special effects and simply play it out to tape without rendering first. It also has a built-in hardware MPEG-2 encoder which also outputs your program to disk in DVD-video-ready format in real-time. On my system, it used to take 4.5 - 5 minutes of processing for each minute of video. Granted, Encore still has to transcode the audio, but that's awfully short work. The RT.X100 also features direct WYSIWYG output from AE and Encore. It does nothing to accelerate AE's rendering, though. These can be had new off eBay for about $550. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759

February 8th, 2006, 11:58 PM	#18
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Will you be Using only on OS ? What concerns me about becoming dedicated to the MAC OS is that other assets that you might use on a PC won't be available on a MAC. Favorite programs, and such that I use now, won't be there. Thus it would seem that the change to MAC should not be a decision to abandon the PC OS. They can coexist. Why not have both. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

February 9th, 2006, 08:12 AM	#22
Mike Moncrief Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: orlando florida Posts: 426	Hello, I am in the process of setting up to learn a different NLE myself..I am a Vegas user.. and I think it is a superb and underrated tool..It is my tool of choice..But i just picked up a Mac, and i will soon be learning Final Cut Pro.. My reasons basicly have to do with the marketplace.. I do freelance work right now, and when i look at the market, a large majority of the edit jobs i see require FCP and mac skills.Yes there are quite a few Avid jobs out there to, no doubt.. But I see tons of FCP work.. i have never owned a Mac before.. (I do now) .. I am somewhat concerned on the hurdles of making the transition.. And I already am juggling to many pieces of software in my head.. But I need add to my skill set and to make myself more marketable in the industry.. Just my 2 cents.. mike m. __________________ Mike Moncrief mikemoncrief@gmail.com www.themikemoncrief.com

February 8th, 2006, 11:56 PM	#17
Roger Rosales Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 254	Actually, now that you mention it, the titler in PP is awesome. Doug, that's some pretty impressive stuff you're telling me, but how much did that whole system run you?

February 9th, 2006, 12:09 AM	#20
Roger Rosales Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 254	Very good point Chris, I use many freeware programs that assist me in my daily video editing and encoding process. I live and breath AVIsynth, huffyuv, and Xvid. I use VirtualDub. I'm not even sure if these are available for Mac yet. Since I never owned a Mac, I never really bothered finding out if they are, maybe it's time. I know a while ago the developers of DivX came out with a Mac version, but I never heard too much about that. It's pretty dead in the mac world. I've also heard that the equivalent to Huffyuv are .mov files. This too is a huge factor in my decision making. Can I part with the current river of usefull freeware on the net that help me so much in post and can I find something similar on the mac or deal without 'em? It's so difficult.

February 9th, 2006, 08:38 AM	#23
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	I cut on Avid on a PC, but learned NLE on Premiere six or seven years ago. I've also done a little bit of work on FCP. For the record, Premiere preceeded FCP in development, and one of the developers left Adobe to go develop FCP. The interface between FCP and Premiere is much more similar than say, Premiere to AVID. In terms of job availability, FCP is most often requested by 'indy' production companies and ad agencies, AVID is most often requested by finishing houses and studios. There is a bit of overlap however. Just keep checking Mandy.com to see, or even Craigslist. Each program has strengths and weaknesses. After reading your posts and comments, my recommendation is to switch to FCP and Mac, keep your PC for 'office' programs. Here's why - Going from Premiere to FCP will be easier than going from Premiere to AVID. Going to a MAC will STILL allow you to buy/learn AVID at a later date if you choose. It sounds like you are more likely to be looking for work with an add agency or indy house, than a production studio or television/broadcast network - So statistically you'll be slightly better off knowing FCP. That's my vote.