8mm & 16mm at DVinfo.net

Andzei Matsukevits · November 25th, 2005, 03:03 AM

I'm completely new in film. I found 8mm, super 8 and 16mm projectors at home.

I know that 16mm must be processed, but i also heard that it is possible to mess with chemicals and do it by your own, is it complicated? is it hard to get right chemicals? Are there people how are processing 16mm in Europe also?

But whats about 8mm? Do i have to process it also? Or i can project it on the wall then film it with regular camera? Whats the differents between super 8? Can i film on super 8 film with regular 8mm camera?

Thanks a lot!

Richard Alvarez · November 25th, 2005, 06:00 AM

A lot of questions, I'll answer them as simply as possible.

It's possible to process your own 16mm and Super 8 film at home. But the chances of getting quality images off of it are low to non-existent. Home processing falls under the realm of 'experimental' filmmaking. I know people who process their super 8 in a sink, like spaghetti. The idea is to get lots of 'artifacts' and induce flaws into the process... so that the image is surreal and ... 'artistic'. But doing this is messy and you never know what you'll come up with. In order to get properly processed images off of filmstock (16mm, super 8) you need exceptionally controlled conditions found in a professional lab. (Temperatures and timings are highly critical.)

There is a difference in the size of the frame between super 8 and regular 8 film. Super 8 is larger. You CANNOT film with Super 8 in a regular 8 camera, nor the reverse. Super 8 comes in cartridges, regular 8 comes on daylight spools.

You can still find super 8 and regular 8 film cameras that run just fine. You can still purchase super 8 and regular 8 filmstocks. You will have to send it away for processing

If you shoot REVERSAL film, then you get a positive image back on the processed film. This CAN be projected onto a wall, and then 'filmed' with your video camera. This is called a poor man's telecine. Depending on the camera and projector, it can yield adequate results. Do a search on the web for 'poor man's telecine' and see the results.

You can also shoot NEGATIVE stock in 16, Super 8 and Regular 8 film. In 16mm, you have a work print struck from it for projection. I don't think anyone is striking workprints from Super 8 negative stock these days. Instead, they will telecine the negative as a positive onto tape for you at the lab. SO you send them your negative Super 8 stock, they send you back a Mini Dv cassete of the images you shot. This you edit the same as any tape.

Here are some links to get you started on your search. Have fun.
http://www.yalefilmandvideo.com/
http://www.blackandwhitefilmfactory.com/super_8.htm http://www.widescreen-centre.co.uk/cine.php

Andzei Matsukevits · November 26th, 2005, 01:26 AM

thanks Richard!

but i still did'nt get one thing. Okey, anyway i have to send my 8mm out for processing. But, are there any difference between processing and film transfer? After filming can i straightly send film to film transfer, or first i have to get processing and then i can send for film transfer? I was searching around, i found a lot of film transfer companies, but i could not find any just film processing companies.

sorry for the messy text

Richard Alvarez · November 26th, 2005, 08:43 AM

Andzei,

I'm guessing that English is not your primary language so perhaps my instructions are not clear.

There are TWO different 8 millimeter formats. SUPER 8 and REGULAR 8. Make sure you know which one you are shooting when you go to buy a roll, or send it to a lab for processing.

ALL FILM MUST BE "Processed"... that is, "Developed" in chemicals in order to be viewed.

You can shoot film in either NEGATIVE stock, or REVERSAL stock.

REVERSAL Stock, is like shooting slide film in still photography. When the film is developed, it turns into a POSITIVE image on the film, and can be loaded directly into a projector and projected onto a screen. This is the way almost all super 8 movies are shot... certainly when it came out in the 1970's. You can still do this today. Kodak's color reversal filmstock is always named with a CHROME on the end of the name KODACHROME, EKTACHROME are two color stocks. THough Kodak has recently discontinued it's KODACHROME line, you can still buy EKTACHROME. In europe, and especially in Russia... there are more choices for Super 8 film stock.

NEGATIVE Stock, is just like the negative film you put in your still camera. When it is processed, it comes out of the chemicals as a "Negative". YOu could put it in a projector, but you would be watching a 'negative' image... not very pretty. This is the way that 35mm, and most 16mm film is shot. Typically, the negative is then used to create a 'positive' film print... just like the reversal print described above. This positive print then becomes the print that you 'work' with. It is called the 'work print.'

With the boom of computers and digital editing... it is now possible to TRANSFER either the Positive image, or the NEGATIVE image onto a video tape so that it can be imported into the computer for editing. The NEGATIVE image is changed into a positive image by the computer during this process.

SO there are two steps to getting film into your computer for editing. PROCESSING the film... and TRANSFERRING the film to tape... also called TELECINE.

Recently, negative film has become available to those who shoot SUPER 8 film.There are very few (perhaps one) labs that will strike a work print from a SUPER 8 negative. Instead, they will simply transfer the processed NEGATIVE image directly to a tape for you to edit on your computer.

So you have two choices when you shoot Super 8 Film. Shoot "Positive" or "Negative" film. (Well, you can also choose color or black/white).

You must send the exposed film to a lab, to be PROCESSED and TRANSFERRED to a tape, in order for it to be brought into your computer for editing.

Ask a lab if they will PROCESS and TRANSFER TO TAPE for you.

The links I gave you have labs in America, you will have to find labs in Europe.

Hope this helps.

November 25th, 2005, 03:03 AM	#1
Andzei Matsukevits Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Tallinn, Estonia Posts: 300	8mm & 16mm I'm completely new in film. I found 8mm, super 8 and 16mm projectors at home. I know that 16mm must be processed, but i also heard that it is possible to mess with chemicals and do it by your own, is it complicated? is it hard to get right chemicals? Are there people how are processing 16mm in Europe also? But whats about 8mm? Do i have to process it also? Or i can project it on the wall then film it with regular camera? Whats the differents between super 8? Can i film on super 8 film with regular 8mm camera? Thanks a lot!

November 25th, 2005, 06:00 AM	#2
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	A lot of questions, I'll answer them as simply as possible. It's possible to process your own 16mm and Super 8 film at home. But the chances of getting quality images off of it are low to non-existent. Home processing falls under the realm of 'experimental' filmmaking. I know people who process their super 8 in a sink, like spaghetti. The idea is to get lots of 'artifacts' and induce flaws into the process... so that the image is surreal and ... 'artistic'. But doing this is messy and you never know what you'll come up with. In order to get properly processed images off of filmstock (16mm, super 8) you need exceptionally controlled conditions found in a professional lab. (Temperatures and timings are highly critical.) There is a difference in the size of the frame between super 8 and regular 8 film. Super 8 is larger. You CANNOT film with Super 8 in a regular 8 camera, nor the reverse. Super 8 comes in cartridges, regular 8 comes on daylight spools. You can still find super 8 and regular 8 film cameras that run just fine. You can still purchase super 8 and regular 8 filmstocks. You will have to send it away for processing If you shoot REVERSAL film, then you get a positive image back on the processed film. This CAN be projected onto a wall, and then 'filmed' with your video camera. This is called a poor man's telecine. Depending on the camera and projector, it can yield adequate results. Do a search on the web for 'poor man's telecine' and see the results. You can also shoot NEGATIVE stock in 16, Super 8 and Regular 8 film. In 16mm, you have a work print struck from it for projection. I don't think anyone is striking workprints from Super 8 negative stock these days. Instead, they will telecine the negative as a positive onto tape for you at the lab. SO you send them your negative Super 8 stock, they send you back a Mini Dv cassete of the images you shot. This you edit the same as any tape. Here are some links to get you started on your search. Have fun. http://www.yalefilmandvideo.com/ http://www.blackandwhitefilmfactory.com/super_8.htm http://www.widescreen-centre.co.uk/cine.php

November 26th, 2005, 01:26 AM	#3
Andzei Matsukevits Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Tallinn, Estonia Posts: 300	thanks Richard! but i still did'nt get one thing. Okey, anyway i have to send my 8mm out for processing. But, are there any difference between processing and film transfer? After filming can i straightly send film to film transfer, or first i have to get processing and then i can send for film transfer? I was searching around, i found a lot of film transfer companies, but i could not find any just film processing companies. sorry for the messy text

November 26th, 2005, 08:43 AM	#4
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Andzei, I'm guessing that English is not your primary language so perhaps my instructions are not clear. There are TWO different 8 millimeter formats. SUPER 8 and REGULAR 8. Make sure you know which one you are shooting when you go to buy a roll, or send it to a lab for processing. ALL FILM MUST BE "Processed"... that is, "Developed" in chemicals in order to be viewed. You can shoot film in either NEGATIVE stock, or REVERSAL stock. REVERSAL Stock, is like shooting slide film in still photography. When the film is developed, it turns into a POSITIVE image on the film, and can be loaded directly into a projector and projected onto a screen. This is the way almost all super 8 movies are shot... certainly when it came out in the 1970's. You can still do this today. Kodak's color reversal filmstock is always named with a CHROME on the end of the name KODACHROME, EKTACHROME are two color stocks. THough Kodak has recently discontinued it's KODACHROME line, you can still buy EKTACHROME. In europe, and especially in Russia... there are more choices for Super 8 film stock. NEGATIVE Stock, is just like the negative film you put in your still camera. When it is processed, it comes out of the chemicals as a "Negative". YOu could put it in a projector, but you would be watching a 'negative' image... not very pretty. This is the way that 35mm, and most 16mm film is shot. Typically, the negative is then used to create a 'positive' film print... just like the reversal print described above. This positive print then becomes the print that you 'work' with. It is called the 'work print.' With the boom of computers and digital editing... it is now possible to TRANSFER either the Positive image, or the NEGATIVE image onto a video tape so that it can be imported into the computer for editing. The NEGATIVE image is changed into a positive image by the computer during this process. SO there are two steps to getting film into your computer for editing. PROCESSING the film... and TRANSFERRING the film to tape... also called TELECINE. Recently, negative film has become available to those who shoot SUPER 8 film.There are very few (perhaps one) labs that will strike a work print from a SUPER 8 negative. Instead, they will simply transfer the processed NEGATIVE image directly to a tape for you to edit on your computer. So you have two choices when you shoot Super 8 Film. Shoot "Positive" or "Negative" film. (Well, you can also choose color or black/white). You must send the exposed film to a lab, to be PROCESSED and TRANSFERRED to a tape, in order for it to be brought into your computer for editing. Ask a lab if they will PROCESS and TRANSFER TO TAPE for you. The links I gave you have labs in America, you will have to find labs in Europe. Hope this helps.