Should I treat a title sequence as if it's union rules?

[Ryan Elder]

For a feature film project, I was thinking of having the title sequence pretty much at the end with no credits in the opening, like how a lot of newer movies do.

However, I was advised that this goes against union rules, and a director can only decide this, if everyone agrees on it, if that's true. My project is non-union and independent, but I was wondering, if I should still follow the union rule, for professionalism sake and still come up with a title sequence for the opening therefore, if that's best?

Thank you for any input on this. I really appreciate it!

[Paul R Johnson]

Ha! I have noticed this, but didn’t realise it was a union thing.

My feeling is that if you want to be known, and famous, be an actor and get you name in big print on the poster, if you want to push a dolly and wear black and cargo shorts, as I've done for 50 years, you get your name in small print, going fast, at the end, and most viewers have switched off, or left the cinema by then.

If you want to ruin a movie, make the beginning boring.

If you MUST do it, fine, but until you do, don’t. It’s horrible. If you are making the movie for distribution or submission to things that have rules, follow them, but otherwise, stay clear.

[Ryan Elder]

Thank you very much for the input! I am not sure if that is the actual rules, but I did hear it's the rules for Hollywood movies, but not sure about independent films being distributed.

[Paul R Johnson]

Ask the people who will distribute them. My guess is they won't have an opinion.

[Ryan Elder]

Thank you very much for the suggestion! I could still do a temporary title sequence for now, for the edit.

What a title sequence like this be too weird if it was just a black screen the whole time?

https://youtu.be/PuNn117Py7I?si=4SyBCSabrQQTqU7G

[Boyd Ostroff]

There's a well-known story about George Lucas resigning from the Director's Guild when he received a huge fine from them for not putting the credits at the beginning of Star Wars. Don't know if other unions have rules about this too, but think other big movies have broken this rule more recently without problems.

Spent much of my life working in live theater and was responsible for writing/negotiating contracts with IATSE and other unions, we always had very good relationships. I'm very much in favor of unions in the entertainment industry because I've seen so many examples where employers take advantage of people in non-union environments. Having said that, they're probably not appropriate if we're talking about little low-budget projects that might be more like "hobbies".

Do you follow other union rules on your productions "for professionalism sake", like working hours, per diems, salaries, etc? If not, then why single out the issue of title sequences for special treatment?

[Ryan Elder]

Oh I see. I just thought maybe I should follow this rule more because it's actually on the screen and just want it to look as professional as it should if that makes sense.

[Paul R Johnson]

"professional' is a term that really means very little, unless you are one, but gets bandied about.

I think there will be far more professional 'tags' in the product than the credits.

[Ryan Elder]

That's a good point. How does one decide if there should be opening titles or not therefore?

[Paul R Johnson]

Up to the Director or person in charge with the 'vision' - it works for some movies and fails miserably for others. Let's face it, credits are for a very small number of people, who often have contractual terms for billing and screen time and placement. You won't have that, so maybe you know that nobody is remotely interested in who was the cameraman, or who trained the dog - so stick them at the end, and people will walk out or stop viewing when the story finishes. Why waste premium screen time with content the audience really don't care about?

[Ryan Elder]

That makes sense. Should I save them all for the end, including the title?

[Paul R Johnson]

I'd always start with the idea of title, lead actors (if they are famous, but not if they are not) then the story, then the end credits and only modify this if the whole ethos of the movie demanded a different style of beginning. This is just me - and I don't make movies - but I know what I like, and would probably do, but it really is your call Ryan.

[Brian Drysdale]

Some films just have the title of the film. There may or may not be a prologue to the film.

Usually on films with distribution there are distributor and production company credits at the start.

You can put all the main credits at the end of the film if you want, some films do this. As I mentioned, some just have the title at the start.

Black background with white titles are no problem, some well known directors use them.

Use titles that suite the nature of the story and the genre.

I'd worry about this when you're editing the film, then you'll know the pacing and what works with the visuals, the performances and soundtrack that you've got. Discussing this at the moment is rather like putting the cart before the horse. That's assuming that you haven't yet shot the film.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay thank you very much for the input!

What if I did a title sequence like this where you hear a conversation unfold during the title sequence but cannot see it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?si=4Sy...ature=youtu.be

Or would a title sequence that is all black, where you cannot see what is happening be too retro and be weird nowadays?

[Brian Drysdale]

Why would you think it's too retro? It either works or it doesn't in the story you're telling.

Since no one here knows your story, we can't comment. You can see if it works during the edit, it's easy, so it's a bit of a waste of time thinking about it now, since you can change it on your NLE.