Is hiring a second unit director a bad idea?

[Ryan Elder]

For a feature film, I feel that I cannot direct the entire thing myself and that I need another director to direct some of it. I was advised before not to have a co-director because it's a bad idea, but is can I have some sort of second in command director, or I am I stuck directing the entire movie myself, and that's the best way to go?

[Brian Drysdale]

Don't confuse a second unit director with a co director, they are different animals.

For example, second unit directors shoot action scenes or other material not being shot by the main unit. They are not involved in directing the main unit, although they may do pick up shots that the main unit couldn't get.

They are not a second in command, they'll have a second unit crew with them and will be commonly working away from the main unit. They can be specialists in film certain types of scenes and will fit in with the overall style of the film, so that it fills in seamlessly with that shot by the main unit.

They're not there to hold your hand as you direct.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

If it's too much to direct an entire film you shouldn't do part of it. It be like asking if you could write half a novel and hire someone to finish the rest. A recurring theme to all your questions is how should you circumvent your limitations on almost every aspect of this film.

[Ryan Elder]

Well I guess I feel I need more hired help rather than take on so much of it myself. I would like to have a second in command of some sort, rather than be the only command myself.

[Paul R Johnson]

We've done this before at least twice Ryan. We have told you the problems, pointed out the conflicts and you can't seem to get it. Our advice is exactly the same as it was before.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh well I wanted to know how others do it or how do they get around the conflicts. I feel like if I have other people working with me, than this can possibly work too.

[Paul R Johnson]

Ryan - we've done this. I don't even need to go and find them. We told you that a second Director, as in somebody to assist you is perfectly fine when the primary Director knows what they are doing and they need assistance because of scale or time. We also told you that if the second Director is strong and the First Director is weak, or uncertain, or inexperienced, or other than perfect in multiple skill areas, it is a disaster, because the second Director (not, as said above second unit Director) takes over, eating into what the real Director should be doing. Time and time again you've demonstrated your inexperience and often bizarre methods - if you get a strong director to assist, they will quickly take over. If you block them, they'll clear off. To be a better Director, you need to learn to cope with the role - not give it away because it's too tough.

In your topics you want to be the chief cook and bottle washer - you want absolute control, you want to Direct, script write, shoot, camera op, sound op, editor and colourist. You don't like giving roles away - you try to micromanage everyone, and frankly you can't even tell somebody who wants you too use ridiculous equipment no - you pop up on a forum and ask how to do it? This is silly.

You cannot do everything - it is impossible. So you look at your pool of cast, creatives and crew and pick people for their strengths. If you find an excellent Director - let that person Direct. If you can fill all the roles bar say sound recordist, then that is your job - and leave the others to theirs - with the Director running the ship. So far, you've made it clear you want to do everything and you don't have the skills.

Here - in this topic, you seem to have realised you are a poor Director, so want somebody else to help? If they are good - as in better than you, give them the job and you doing something else. What is wrong with a Ryan Elder Production with somebody else directing it?

You cannot share the job - you're not able to communicate well with other people, so sharing a role for you would be very stressful. You would resent every decision, because they would probably just decide there and then. You would have to go off and research and start two or three topics to ask us, then ignore our advice and mess it up.

[Ryan Elder]

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

Ryan - we've done this. I don't even need to go and find them. We told you that a second Director, as in somebody to assist you is perfectly fine when the primary Director knows what they are doing and they need assistance because of scale or time. We also told you that if the second Director is strong and the First Director is weak, or uncertain, or inexperienced, or other than perfect in multiple skill areas, it is a disaster, because the second Director (not, as said above second unit Director) takes over, eating into what the real Director should be doing. Time and time again you've demonstrated your inexperience and often bizarre methods - if you get a strong director to assist, they will quickly take over. If you block them, they'll clear off. To be a better Director, you need to learn to cope with the role - not give it away because it's too tough.

In your topics you want to be the chief cook and bottle washer - you want absolute control, you want to Direct, script write, shoot, camera op, sound op, editor and colourist. You don't like giving roles away - you try to micromanage everyone, and frankly you can't even tell somebody who wants you too use ridiculous equipment no - you pop up on a forum and ask how to do it? This is silly.

You cannot do everything - it is impossible. So you look at your pool of cast, creatives and crew and pick people for their strengths. If you find an excellent Director - let that person Direct. If you can fill all the roles bar say sound recordist, then that is your job - and leave the others to theirs - with the Director running the ship. So far, you've made it clear you want to do everything and you don't have the skills.

Here - in this topic, you seem to have realised you are a poor Director, so want somebody else to help? If they are good - as in better than you, give them the job and you doing something else. What is wrong with a Ryan Elder Production with somebody else directing it?

You cannot share the job - you're not able to communicate well with other people, so sharing a role for you would be very stressful. You would resent every decision, because they would probably just decide there and then. You would have to go off and research and start two or three topics to ask us, then ignore our advice and mess it up.

Oh I didn't want to do all the tasks before I just felt I had to fill roles before such as editor and color grader to save money on my projects. But I do like hired help and want someone else tod to the cinematography and shooting, and production sound. I can record sound effects in post to save money if I have to.

I am open to the idea of someone else directing and I just produce, it's just when I asked other filmmakers opinion on this before, they said it was too risky, and that I would be giving up too much control to one person with my money, cause the director is too much of a job to give away entirely, if that is a fair point?

[Brian Drysdale]

It depends if you want to be a producer or a director. It's not a control thing, the producer's job is to get the funding, usually it's not their own money.

It's mot risky if you have the right director for the production.

However, you don't really seem to have qualities required for either job at the moment.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay. I could try to develop those qualities if that's best.

[Paul R Johnson]

If? Ryan - I cannot believe you don't know your weak areas, we've been shaming them off for quite a time.

If you wanted to be a surgeon - there is no way you'd practice on me. If you want to be a Director, you need experience, drive, initiative and a strong gut reaction to what is the right thing to do. You need to get others to do what you want if it's behind your own skills. You've not really progressed very much have you? You've been planning one project for over three years and others nearly as long. You will still be planning when Brian and I are no longer on the planet!

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay well it's hard to progress when I do not have the money to keep hiring a team so many times to do a project on. So it's hard for me to practice directing people, when I cannot afford to pay people for a project very often. I can do the whole no budget thing again, but I never like the results, because I do not spend the money on having better production as a result. But I could abdicate directing and give it to someone else if that's best, and just be the funder, and editor and color grader if that's best?

[Paul R Johnson]

Why not just produce, and get in the best people for each discipline - then your movie would be really good. What is the old phrase? Pay peanuts and get monkeys?

When my normal clients shut the doors for Covid - I had no income, so had to get off my bum and do work I'd normally have not touched. Not remotely interesting or satisfying, but it put food on the table. I'm long passed being impressed, or hoping for a break - so I took the quite poorly paid stuff. Surely this kind of video product is the kind of thing you could take on. Maybe a couple of decent amateur actors, and some pieces to camera. Stone chippings in 5,10 and 30mm sizes, delivered to your door, or uPVC double glazing, or pressure vessel safety testing, or industrial washing machine wash in the bag safety services for covid safety - mega dull, boring and dull - but they utilise camera, sound, lighting, actors, script and direction - which I did either on my own, or with somebody to assist on one. DO half a dozen of these and you'd learn much - especially as they're all fixed fee budgeted - so working out the price and then not over-running is pretty critical to make a profit. They're hardly going to be on my CV, bit for your Ryan, this kind of stuff would get you busy and gaining experience. I live in a small coastal town - you surely have more opportunity than me?

[Ryan Elder]

I could do that perhaps. Should I be on set though as producer to see how things are going?

[Paul R Johnson]

In my example - I did the entire things myself.

If you are doing your thing - then as producer, yes you should probably be there so you know the state of play. Real producers are rarely that involved.