Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Many times in the past you’ve asked questions about this project. Which many have replied ‘What’s your budget?’ Which your answer changes every time from you don’t know, to not enough to buy $10 handcuffs to 50k. Beyond the money it seems your skills or your access to crew to deliver professional results makes determining what you could realistically do difficult to judge. If you and your crew abilities are so low no screen play no matter how basic will be a challenge. I know you have a higher opinion of your skills than your results seemed to indicate...

[Ryan Elder]

Oh well the handcuffs were for a short film I did before, that I was using as an example, not the current project I am budgeting. As for having a high opinion of my abilities, I thought it as the opposite and it was too low, since I feel I keep coming up short.

[Brian Drysdale]

I suspect the reasoning is that action, like trucks overturning adds to your costs. That you seem to be unwilling to spend small amounts on props, doesn't indicate a willingness to spend the larger amounts that may be required to pull off stunts at a level acceptable to a mainstream audience.

Not having the inner confidence is the reason why you'll fall short, since directing involves displaying a self confidence, even if you've got lots of doubts. It's overcoming those doubts and making a decision, even if it's wrong.to some extent, because the worst thing is making no decision in war and making films.

Confidence allows you to risk failure or mistakes and you won't learn anything without doing that. As they said in the other forum, go out and make films, you'll learn more doing that than asking endless questions on forums.

There are lots of books, written by directors, that go though their thought processes and worries. Go and read those, you'll learn from their mistakes.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, but I thought that having too much confidence is a bad thing, since it seems others may think I am too confident and in over my head. Unless there is no such thing as too much confidence for a filmmaker and we need that?

What about what was said before, about how I think too highly of my abilities?

[Greg Miller]

Ryan, the problem is not just that you over-think things. Part of the problem is that you under-do things. You are expending a lot of time and energy (yours and everyone else's) just talking about stuff, rather than doing things and learning from your experience.

I think you would be better off to find a mentor locally, someone who has been successful at making films, and just be an apprentice for a year. (Or have you already driven all the local people bat-shit crazy with your repetitive, circular questions?) If you can't get a position as an apprentice, get a position as a janitor where films are being made, and just watch and learn for a year.

Here's a multiple-choice question for you. You have to answer either "A," "B," or "C."

Q: If you had to choose, which would you rather do (in other words, which would you rather have on your resume, and which would make you happier)?
A.) Writing a great script for a film
B.) Producing & directing a great film
C.) Talking to people in forums like this about writing and producing a film.

Just one simple answer for that one question: "A," "B," or "C"? No commentary, no explanation, no qualifying your answer. Just give us one letter. Give it some thought, then please give us your answer.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay. My answer is B.

I am trying to get the budget down first and just feel stuck in pre-production and getting everything arranged. I need to the pre-production ducks all in a row first, before production, or at least that is how it seems.

Well as far as mentors go, one filmmaker I helped on his projects before, made his first feature for only $480 USD. So I could try to learn from him perhaps, but he makes comedies, and thought not sure if he could help with a thriller script, that may be a totally different boat, budget wise, but maybe he could help with the budget.

[Josh Bass]

My impression from reading a novel’s worth of his posts is that he USED TO have confidence and not question every single decision no matter how small, but the harsh criticism of the few projects he HAS completed and posted has brought him to this state of mind.

[Ryan Elder]

Well I wouldn't say I didn't question any of my decisions, but should I go back to that mindset and make a feature without questioning any of the budget decisions, and think of my judgment as good and correct? I guess I'm just afraid if I am not cautious, I will get in over my head with too much confidence.

[Josh Bass]

Well in the past you were at least confident enough to finish something...the Timewine movie. Since I dont think we’ve seen anything else that was truly yours—-only other people’s project’s that youve directed with heavy input or collaboration from your clients.

We are begging you to do more short zero budget projects of YOUR OWN. you will learn so much about what does and doesnt work and what can and cant be done with x resources. Doing these projects will answer so many of the endless questions you have.

[Greg Miller]

OK, Ryan, "B" it is. Implicit in my question was my feeling that you cannot meet all three criteria, certainly not simultaneously (unless perhaps you are Orson Welles). Here's my non-technical thoughts on this entire thread and on many of your threads. I'm not charging you for my thoughts, they cost nothing, and they are worth nothing. So here goes.

Based on the number of questions you're asking about your proposed project, I think you are tackling too much all at once. You're trying to write a thriller AND produce a film of it; your lack of practical experience (and your realization of that) are causing you to spend a lot of time in dialog in these forums. That's "A," "B" and "C." You need to focus on what is most important to you: "B." As Josh points out, you are getting more than a little criticism here. Many members are real professionals and have been doing this for years; they think in terms of "doing something better" which might sound like a bucket-load of criticism to you. (Also, I suspect some of the negativity is because they are frustrated by the endless, seemingly circular, discussions.)

When you ask a question, you end up getting (let's pick an arbitrary number here) five answers which are all slightly different, and some of which seem to contradict others. It's all good advice, just five different opinions from five different people. They may all be correct. But still it would make anybody's head spin. Since you didn't answer "C" (chat online about making a film) as your first choice, then it would be wonderful if you could get out of this rut and aim for "B."

You are emotionally too close to the thriller script. You have that story in your mind. You want to see it with that much realism, detail and quality on film. You don't have enough distance from the story to turn the script into something that you are capable of putting on film, given your budget, the level of your experience and that of your cast and crew. You are trying to satisfy "A" and "B" and you have to pick one. Well, you have picked one: you want to make "a great film." My question didn't specify any particular film ... just a great film.

I strongly urge you to pick a smaller and more realistic project, just for practice, and do a meticulous and really great job of it! If it's a 30-second PSA for the local [aquarium / SPCA / homeless shelter / food bank] then do that, and make it really good. Just the act of doing it will be a good learning experience. Then find a 3-minute project that is within your budget and your skill set, and do a really good job at that. Not the least benefit is that you will start to develop some self confidence. Pick one project that has some difficult lighting (everything else, hopefully, being easier). Pick another project that has some challenging sound situations. Learn as you go.

The Sistene Chapel was not Michelangelo's first painting. It took him four years after he had gained a lot of experience with smaller works. It took Brahms at least sixteen years (maybe more) to write his first symphony ... after he had gained a lot of experience with smaller works. Save the thriller, which is so important to you, until after you've gained some experience with smaller films. Be content to start small, and become a confident craftsman along the way. Then you'll be ready for your big story.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, I thought that the Battle Damaged Souls film was mine in the sense that I directed it, and since I want to get into directing, is anything I directed, truely mine? Or do I have to write the script for others to consider the project something I did? I am just not the best writer I find I guess.

Originally Posted by Josh Bass

Well in the past you were at least confident enough to finish something...the Timewine movie. Since I dont think we’ve seen anything else that was truly yours—-only other people’s project’s that youve directed with heavy input or collaboration from your clients.

We are begging you to do more short zero budget projects of YOUR OWN. you will learn so much about what does and doesnt work and what can and cant be done with x resources. Doing these projects will answer so many of the endless questions you have.

Well I could do more zero budget ones, it's just that everytime I do, I am told the acting is really bad, and the cinematography is really bad. So therefore, is there a point to doing zero budget ones, if they just keep ending up in bad quality, since I didn't spend a lot on acting and cinematography?

If I keep making the zero budget ones, without spending money on acting and cinematography, I thought it would still be the same thing, and no improvements would come, since I constantly told to improve in those areas, unless I am wrong?

Also, it's difficult to get people interested in zero budget anymore. One actor told me that they feel I should move on from zero budget, onto bigger projects, if he has a point? I think some other filmmakers I worked with also feel the same way.

Oh also, as far as short films of mine I posted on here before, did I post this one on here before, or no?

I feel I must give a sexual violence warning though perhaps.

In the Mood For Wrath - YouTube

[Josh Bass]

Uh. wow. No, have not seen that one before. Im sure the others here will have thoughts.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay. I mean the acting and cinematography are not good cause it's a no budget one of course...

[Brian Drysdale]

No budget doesn't mean that the acting has to be bad, just that your pool will be more limited. If you have a good actor or actors, write your films around them, I used the same actor in a number of films, he was a professional actor, but I knew he had screen presence and came from a stage background, so could deliver lines. .

I got him to act with his eyes and not to project to the back row. Unfortunately, he had personal difficulties, which restricted his professional career, but he got work doing small parts. I recently saw an extract of a film I did with him in a retrospective of films made here and he shone in the scene.

We were shooting on film, one film was on 8mm the others were 16mm, so there were costs.

Some actors will do films for practice, especially if it it's a big part, however, that's easier on shorts.than a feature film.

The same applies to crew, it depends on the local pool.It helps if you've also got the skills to do a number of the jobs on your own film.. .

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay. Where can I find a larger pool of actors as well as a larger pool of DP's to pick from if it's zero budget?