Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?

[John Nantz]

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

I didn't say that changing the location changes the actors, did I? Unless I mislead you, or what did you think I meant?

In the martial arts gig, wasn't there some mention about noise from the heater?

In any event, the facility will probably have to be heated during the time frame, January and February, that was mentioned when it would least cost for renting equipment or getting pro-bono, or less expensive, actors and support staff.

If the location, or locations, have to be heated then that cost can be significant. I lived in an area with similar temperatures and the heating bills were expensive, so something to consider in the budget. Noise from the heating system can be a problem to deal with.

As mentioned, the cold temperatures when shooting outside can be a problem with some equipment so there are some issues to look out for but based on your martial arts gig you already know some of these. Experience is mentioned because there has been a lot written about the value of experience. Every gig can add something somewhere.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Come on man. You're jumping ahead this is material for winter problem thread. All good points. Wouldn't want to be filming in winter.

[Ryan Elder]

Originally Posted by John Nantz

In the martial arts gig, wasn't there some mention about noise from the heater?

In any event, the facility will probably have to be heated during the time frame, January and February, that was mentioned when it would least cost for renting equipment or getting pro-bono, or less expensive, actors and support staff.

If the location, or locations, have to be heated then that cost can be significant. I lived in an area with similar temperatures and the heating bills were expensive, so something to consider in the budget. Noise from the heating system can be a problem to deal with.

As mentioned, the cold temperatures when shooting outside can be a problem with some equipment so there are some issues to look out for but based on your martial arts gig you already know some of these. Experience is mentioned because there has been a lot written about the value of experience. Every gig can add something somewhere.

Yeah in the past I would try to turn off the heating or air conditioning, but if the people who let you use their location have no control over this, and you cannot find an off switch, what do other filmmakers do? Just get the heater as room tone, and try to cut it down in post?

[Brian Drysdale]

If they can't switch it off they will record it as room tone. Apart from that, the recordists usually get the mics in as close as possible.

[Paul R Johnson]

Sometimes things are just very loud. I've had to order some more silent lighting kit, because I can hear the combined fan noise from the multiple units I have, and attempts to filter it out, or use electronics haven't been too successful, so the two close in to the subject have to go and be replaced with silent ones!

[Ryan Elder]

Yeah for sure, in the past, I would just record the ventilation sounds as room tone, if need be.

As for deciding how many shots though, a thought has to come to mind in editing, that I did have a problem with before.

Let's say I want to cut out a line or two of dialogue and decide it's not necessary, but the actor is in a different spot in the room all of a sudden now, that you have cut that line... And since the blocking is done the same in each take and in each shot, the line is going to be said at the exact same spot, where the actor is moving.

What do you do then? It was suggested to me before to shoot a reaction shot from another character, who is looking at the actor as he/she is moving, so I can use that to cut around the deleted line. This can be done because the actor's eyes in the reaction shot are following the moving actor.

However, what if the actor in the reaction shot, who's eyes are also following the actor, says a line that also needs to be cut because it coincides with the other dialogue you want to cut? What do you do then? Or is there a way to shoot to avoid continuity errors like this, if you want to cut out lines, if that makes sense?

[Paul R Johnson]

There will always be discontinuities that you don't expect or plan for, so I always make sure that I have something to use as a cutaway - I think it's rare to not have something that works.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, by cutaways, do you mean insert shots? It's just in the past, if I use insert shots to hide a continuity mistake, the cuts to the insert came off as awkward, because the insert was unnecessary, and was only being used to cover up a mistake.

Plus also, other movies will have whole scenes play out without any cutaways to insert shots, so how do they do it, if they want to cut out lines of dialogue, but still keep continuity?

[Brian Drysdale]

You're flying all over the place, Didn't they teach anything on your film course?

You shoot cutaways as part of your coverage, that's all part of your 3 + 3 stuff that you keep asking about. When shooting you have to ensure that the actors keep their performances consistent Having a continuity person is important or failing that the director should keep a sharp eye it, as should the camera operator.

An insert is different, it just a clumsy way of doing it, sometimes used on interviews because they don't have shots of the interviewer to act as a cutaway.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay thanks, but the problem with the cutaways, is that the continuity is effected in those if you cut out a line of dialogue as well.

Let's say for example you have a seen in an office, and actor gets up from his desk while talking to another actor, and we walks to the window.

You want to cut out the line that he says as he gets up from his desk and walks over to the window. Only he says this line as he gets up from the desk and walks over to the window, in every shot in the coverage.

What then? You could cut to a close up of the actor, and try to use the other actors eyes to see his eyes move and follow the character to the window with this eyes. Only you cannot use this because he also says a line that needs to be cut as well. What then?

[Brian Drysdale]

You could use a shot of the other actor reacting to cover the lines that are removed. Their eye movement should indicate that the other actor has stood up, so allowing you to cut back to the actor again as they move towards the window.. The cutting point would be partly dictated by when the actor says the line, it could also be used to shorten the walk to the window

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay thanks, it's just when I did this before on past projects, used an actors eyes to establish the movement of another character, it wasn't enough and the audience had to actually see the character move for it to register though. Unless I am doing something wrong?

[Paul R Johnson]

Then you did it badly Ryan. An established technique, proven in cinema and tv, so if it doesn't work for a particular shot then there are two components that went wrong. The shot material or the editor proficiency.

The other question of course is WHY the lines needed to be cut, if the edit doesn't work, you have the option of putting them back in or altering them?

[Brian Drysdale]

Having something work depends on the timing, you need to establish that something is happening for the audience to make sense of it. The person in the chair has to start rising, so you're cutting on the movement, so that the eye following makes sense. A cut working and not working can come down to one or two frames with something like that.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

This is the point of doing multiple takes, having a large monitor on set, and carefully reviewing the performance before moving on to the next shot. You struggle writing dialog. The time to fix it is at the writing stage not after you film it. Someone pointed out your problems have to do with doing something poorly. Of course all of this isn't easy.