Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?

[Ryan Elder]

Yeah that's true. I am just wondering which ones work and which ones do not work, or what is acceptable compared to unnaceptable. How do other directors' know what works and what to avoid?

[Brian Drysdale]

They make mistakes and learn from them, experience and their own sensibilities usually teaches them how far they can go and prevent disasters. However, that doesn't always work and audiences do walk out if the film doesn't work, although some art house directors are also good at clearing audiences.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, but there are directors who keep trying new things and it works, but they seem to know though. They dont't try to see if it is a mistake, they seem to know, even though they haven't done it before. How do they know in that case, when you are making a movie, and there isn't time to try to test things with an audience, when trying new things, out of compromise? Directors do not have time to make a test film to see if it works beforehand. They are in the middle of making the movie, so how do they know in the moment when trying something new?

[Brian Drysdale]

These directors have the talent and a personal "voice" that resonants with their audience.

However, it doesn't always work, which is why parts of some major feature films have to be re-shot because some aspect of a film doesn't play well with the preview audience. They do the same thing with stage plays, they get changed after previews and over time, even Shakespeare did this.

[Paul R Johnson]

Yep - previews are very useful. I did one when I was teaching at college - a writer/director asked me if I could do his sequel with the college people. He came to see it, made loads of notes and told everyone how great they were (an exaggeration I think) then he invited every one of them to a city three hundred miles away, and paid for all their expenses so they could watch the first ever professional version of it. They were amazed. Two scenes were missing, a new one inserted that did the same job, and one character was completely cut, and another had his character readjusted to be much stronger and not a supporting role. Fascinating how he changed things just by watching the audiences reactions to each scene and noting what worked and what didn't.

[Josh Bass]

Ive done that with short films...had several screenings and noticed audiences react favorably/not react favorably to the same parts fairly consistently, cut material out (and in one animated film altered shots) in response. Never reshot anything though. Thats for fancy people with budgets.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, I didn't think that I would be able to reshoot anything, especially if I am doing a lot of the post myself and it takes a long time to finish. One time for a short film I reshot a scene later, but the actor had lost 20 pounds for example.

[Brian Drysdale]

Re shoots can become necessary, you may discover this when viewing the rushes, rather than waiting for final edit. Problems can arise with them, but that goes with the territory.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh it's just with a test audience, they have to see a whole movie in context to see if anything needs reshooting though. I haven't been able to judge with test audiences just viewing dailies on their own so far as much, because they said they need to see it as a whole movie. But of course some things can be caught in the dailies, just not everything I thought.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

You've said before that people keep telling you're doing something wrong. Based on the frequency and because it's coming from multiple sources that must mean you lack the proper aptitude, vision, judgement, whatever you want to call it.

Reminds me of college. I would get frustrated that my art professors wouldn't tell me if what I had done was good. The reason I fully understand now, is being able to make you're own decision and to be able to properly evaluate your own work is paramount. While in the short term if they gave me all the answers it would have made me happy, in the long term when I graduated and didn't have access to their counsel I'd be lost without the ability to think for myself.

Undoubtedly you'll keep trying to do what you don't have an aptitude for and keep asking other people's option what you should do.

[Ryan Elder]

Well I could do things my own way, and be my own judge, and decide for mysel if something works or not, without so much of other's input, it's just I am afraid that if I do that, I will have be wrong again, or get in over my head. Another thing is though, I feel that my instincts are actually better than I make myself believe. It's just I often let things go, because of lack of money, and tell myself it's okay, and it's not. So I feel I would do a better job with more money for sure, because then I wouldn't compromise my own judgment so much.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Everyone has opinions and ideas. So, the fact that you have them is a moot point. Even the worst director still thinks his ideas are special. The import thing in film making that others have touched on is your ability to connected and interest an audience. Do you have a compelling vision and can you execute it? In order to rise above the doldrums of amateurism there is a higher standard. If it doesn't come natural and you're not that good...

[Ryan Elder]

Yeah I think if I have the cast and crew to pull it off I can, yes. I just need to get really good actors and a really good DP, and perhaps better locations, than I think I can.

[Paul R Johnson]

The trouble ryan, is that if the only basis for judging success is other people’s opinions, and you are unable to pre-assess what they will be, you are never going to be able to know you are right. You want something so bad, but just don’t have the guts or the courage to say “I am certain I am right” or even “I know I am right, even though they say I am wrong” you want advice to change the chance of failure but you seem incapable of learning and growing. Your progress is at snails pace, your mistakes repeat and when you ask for advice you ignore it if it doesn’t agree with something you’ve set your mind on. Tell me this is not true. If you get told something once it could be something not correct. Gulf you get told the same thing over and over again many months apart and people often are unaware we did it before, perhaps they are right. Search this forum for your posts with the phrase “I’ve been told”. The results are scary!

[Brian Drysdale]

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

It's just I often let things go, because of lack of money, and tell myself it's okay, and it's not. So I feel I would do a better job with more money for sure, because then I wouldn't compromise my own judgment so much.

This is the real world, you don't always get to make a film the way you want, there are practical issues that get in the way. On one of my short films, which had a bigger budget than your feature film (it was shot on 35mm film and the crew were paid) there was one shot that I wanted done with with a wide view from a forest on a hill.

When location hunting I couldn't find it, so I used the location that was logistically the best one, but didn't have the view. This was picked because it was the most suitable because we needed to shoot a film at night, in a forest, during the spring when there was only roughly 5 to 6 hours of darkness,

While working on an other film I found the ideal location for the shot. It was 45 miles away, in an area that had been termed "bandit country" because of IRA activity. There would've been increased travel time which would've added to the costs plus the fuel or mileage for the lighting truck and the generator truck. We were using 12k HMI lights, so it was a generator you'd see on feature films.

You have to make decisions which aren't your ideal. At least you're not shooting on film, which would add another pressure on you. On that film I had 30 seconds of film left and that was trying to do the minium number of takes, but two shots had 7 takes, one of a key performance moment and the other was caused by the blanks in a pistol not firing,

Those two shots limited the number of other shots that could be done. The editor wasn't too pleased that his options were limited, however, the story got told and it mostly worked, even though it wasn't exactly how I wanted it. That's the real world.