What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

Ryan Elder · February 9th, 2020, 11:30 AM

That's true, perhaps I should stick to directing and leave it up to a separate DP. Should I just tell the DP i want the teal and orange look and light for that, so it can be pulled off properly in Resolve with no noise or artifact issues?

Brian Drysdale · February 9th, 2020, 11:43 AM

This discussion should involve both the DP and the colourist, so that there is joined up thinking.

Ryan Elder · February 9th, 2020, 11:48 AM

Okay but I wanted to color myself to save money where I could. I will get a DP to shoot it properly but was hoping I could handle the grading. I was told the things the projects I colored before looked good for what they were, but I haven't separated the skin tones in those ones, and want to do this for future ones.

I can follow the davinci resolve tutorial exactly, and I think it will work if the movie was shot right for that type of skin tone separation in davinci. So can the DP just be knowledgable that he doesn't have to speak to a colorist, and I tell him/her what I want and he/she would know how to do it?

Brian Drysdale · February 9th, 2020, 12:36 PM

Then ensuring your Resolve skills are up to the required level is entirely up to you, You won't get those on the forum, but only by lots of practice and developing your eye for detail.There's no [point in asking questions here, this all has to be discussed with the DP.

Paul R Johnson · February 9th, 2020, 02:18 PM

Is the cameraman/DP trying to get consistency in what is shot and shooting for 'normal', and then the colourist works their magic on 'perfect' material.

Why would you want to follow the tutorial exactly - that only works on that material. You will have something different, so need to adjust the process to produce what you want. Are you certain that your movie suits it? Or maybe you will find something similar but better.

Youtube videos are for process and technique - very rarely for following to the letter.

Ryan Elder · February 9th, 2020, 03:29 PM

Yeah I actually have an idea for a similar look but modified. The thing about the teal and orange look is that if you do it in a trees, which is where I want to shoot, the green is depleted out of the trees and grass completely, which I don't like. I also do not want faces to be orange. I was thinking they could be more on the normal skin color range.

So instead of a teal and orange look, I want something similar that is a normal skin color and teal, and green look, if that makes sense? So it's a similar concept with the skin tones isolated and colored differently than everything else, but with different colors more so.

I also do not necessarily need the type of lighting used in the video. I may go for less soft, more high key lighting, if that's right term.

Brian Drysdale · February 9th, 2020, 04:54 PM

Just be aware that the costumes will be a different colour if you start changing things between scenes.

Ryan Elder · February 9th, 2020, 07:16 PM

Oh okay, but wouldn't the costumes be the same color between scenes if they are the same costume?

Brian Drysdale · February 10th, 2020, 01:55 AM

Not if you're changing the orange and teal settings for different locations. The costumes are affected by the latter, so if you change the strength of the teal for the locations that will influence the look of the costumes. You can see the costumes being changed compared with the original video in your test with the fighters.

Ryan Elder · February 10th, 2020, 02:27 AM

Oh yes, I would have apply the same levels of color grading so the costumes stayed the same yes.

However, what if during shooting, if I want the background to be teal, we just put a teal gel on the background backlights?

Keep the keylight on the actors faces white, with no gel, but gel the background fill lights teal. Would that be better?

Brian Drysdale · February 10th, 2020, 02:35 AM

Adjusting different selected areas of the frame is going to push your skills with Resolve.

What is possible with the lighting will depend on the locations. the action within the scene, plus the lighting and grip kit you have available on the production. The trick is making it look natural. using blue LED practicals would motivate the walls to be blue.

Ryan Elder · February 10th, 2020, 02:36 AM

Oh okay, are you saying to isolate different parts of the frame and color grade them differently, aside from the skin tones?

Brian Drysdale · February 10th, 2020, 02:46 AM

Unless you're prepared to put in months (if not years) learning the deeper aspects of colour correction, I would avoid doing so. Especially since it involves an entire feature film.

Ryan Elder · February 10th, 2020, 02:47 AM

Oh okay sure. I can light the walls to be blue then, but when I asked about it before, I was told that it would cause two problems.

1. It would look unnatural cause the audience can tell that the walls are lit blue, as oppose to painted blue.

2. If I light the walls, I will have to use brighter lights on the actors, which would make things harder on the actors.

Are these two points true?

Brian Drysdale · February 10th, 2020, 03:09 AM

If you've get blue LED practical lights in shot lighting the walls, that will motivate the walls to look blue with your lighting.

Since I doubt you're shooting with 40 ASA or 100 ASA film, there's no reason to have bright lights pointing at your actors unless you're trying to balance the daylight outside the windows. Just try and avoid pointing them directly into their eyes (unless there;s a good reason).

February 9th, 2020, 11:30 AM	#61
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? That's true, perhaps I should stick to directing and leave it up to a separate DP. Should I just tell the DP i want the teal and orange look and light for that, so it can be pulled off properly in Resolve with no noise or artifact issues?

February 9th, 2020, 11:43 AM	#62
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,154	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? This discussion should involve both the DP and the colourist, so that there is joined up thinking.

February 9th, 2020, 11:48 AM	#63
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Okay but I wanted to color myself to save money where I could. I will get a DP to shoot it properly but was hoping I could handle the grading. I was told the things the projects I colored before looked good for what they were, but I haven't separated the skin tones in those ones, and want to do this for future ones. I can follow the davinci resolve tutorial exactly, and I think it will work if the movie was shot right for that type of skin tone separation in davinci. So can the DP just be knowledgable that he doesn't have to speak to a colorist, and I tell him/her what I want and he/she would know how to do it?

February 9th, 2020, 12:36 PM	#64
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,154	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Then ensuring your Resolve skills are up to the required level is entirely up to you, You won't get those on the forum, but only by lots of practice and developing your eye for detail.There's no [point in asking questions here, this all has to be discussed with the DP.

February 9th, 2020, 02:18 PM	#65
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,049	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Is the cameraman/DP trying to get consistency in what is shot and shooting for 'normal', and then the colourist works their magic on 'perfect' material. Why would you want to follow the tutorial exactly - that only works on that material. You will have something different, so need to adjust the process to produce what you want. Are you certain that your movie suits it? Or maybe you will find something similar but better. Youtube videos are for process and technique - very rarely for following to the letter.

February 9th, 2020, 03:29 PM	#66
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Yeah I actually have an idea for a similar look but modified. The thing about the teal and orange look is that if you do it in a trees, which is where I want to shoot, the green is depleted out of the trees and grass completely, which I don't like. I also do not want faces to be orange. I was thinking they could be more on the normal skin color range. So instead of a teal and orange look, I want something similar that is a normal skin color and teal, and green look, if that makes sense? So it's a similar concept with the skin tones isolated and colored differently than everything else, but with different colors more so. I also do not necessarily need the type of lighting used in the video. I may go for less soft, more high key lighting, if that's right term.

February 9th, 2020, 04:54 PM	#67
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,154	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Just be aware that the costumes will be a different colour if you start changing things between scenes.

February 9th, 2020, 07:16 PM	#68
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Oh okay, but wouldn't the costumes be the same color between scenes if they are the same costume?

February 10th, 2020, 01:55 AM	#69
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,154	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Not if you're changing the orange and teal settings for different locations. The costumes are affected by the latter, so if you change the strength of the teal for the locations that will influence the look of the costumes. You can see the costumes being changed compared with the original video in your test with the fighters.

February 10th, 2020, 02:27 AM	#70
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Oh yes, I would have apply the same levels of color grading so the costumes stayed the same yes. However, what if during shooting, if I want the background to be teal, we just put a teal gel on the background backlights? Keep the keylight on the actors faces white, with no gel, but gel the background fill lights teal. Would that be better?

February 10th, 2020, 02:35 AM	#71
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,154	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Adjusting different selected areas of the frame is going to push your skills with Resolve. What is possible with the lighting will depend on the locations. the action within the scene, plus the lighting and grip kit you have available on the production. The trick is making it look natural. using blue LED practicals would motivate the walls to be blue.

February 10th, 2020, 02:36 AM	#72
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Oh okay, are you saying to isolate different parts of the frame and color grade them differently, aside from the skin tones?

February 10th, 2020, 02:46 AM	#73
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,154	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Unless you're prepared to put in months (if not years) learning the deeper aspects of colour correction, I would avoid doing so. Especially since it involves an entire feature film.

February 10th, 2020, 02:47 AM	#74
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Oh okay sure. I can light the walls to be blue then, but when I asked about it before, I was told that it would cause two problems. 1. It would look unnatural cause the audience can tell that the walls are lit blue, as oppose to painted blue. 2. If I light the walls, I will have to use brighter lights on the actors, which would make things harder on the actors. Are these two points true?

February 10th, 2020, 03:09 AM	#75
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,154	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? If you've get blue LED practical lights in shot lighting the walls, that will motivate the walls to look blue with your lighting. Since I doubt you're shooting with 40 ASA or 100 ASA film, there's no reason to have bright lights pointing at your actors unless you're trying to balance the daylight outside the windows. Just try and avoid pointing them directly into their eyes (unless there;s a good reason).