What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

Ryan Elder · March 9th, 2020, 02:12 PM

Oh okay. Well in my parking garage scenario, it's a stand off between the police and villains, so the police have to be able to see down the parking garage, since that's where the villains are. I can let some parts be dark so they can hide though, but I want it to be more of a shooting stand off and chase, rather than a hide and seek game.

The lights for my location are daylight balanced, so they will show up blue, if the camera is on on a 3200 kelvin white balance.

Paul R Johnson · March 9th, 2020, 02:22 PM

Is the garage outside or undercover? Lighting (the real lighting) is unlikely to be 5600K or anything useful. However, shadows and contrast make the actual colour less important. Seeing everything bright and beautiful is nowhere as exciting as shadows.

Ryan Elder · March 9th, 2020, 02:26 PM

Yep not everything has to be bright and beautiful, but the characters need to actually see more than what you in All The President's Men for mine I think.

The garage is indoors, but the natural lighting does illuminate more. If the shadowy ares were that large and that dark in real life, no one could see beyond 30 feet when they went to look for their cars. However, if I go with the real daylight balanced lighting, and just let it be blue, kind of like how All the President's Men, let it be green, the actors' skin is going to be magenta in the faces, but will that be okay?

Brian Drysdale · March 9th, 2020, 03:00 PM

Reality and how you film and light a scene in a feature film are two entirely different things. You're interested in drama, not assisting people to park their cars!

You can use gels to colour correct the lights on the actor's faces, assuming that you're not using the LED film lights that have a wide range of colour controls.

Ryan Elder · March 9th, 2020, 03:35 PM

Oh okay, but I thought we were talking about the natural lights of the locations. Gels those?

Paul R Johnson · March 9th, 2020, 03:55 PM

If the scene is lit by natural light, then if you need to light the spots that are in shadow, then they need to be the same colour as the natural light.

If any of the outside is direct sunlight and not cloudy day light, then the intensity of the direct light will be very bright, and trying to boost this will be tricky. This is drifting into one of those scenes that you just cannot do properly. If the car park has a roof, and real sunlight and real shadows the contrast ratio will be very high, so if you don't want these areas of darkness, sorting them out will be very difficult.

Me personally - I'd manage the shadows and use the sunlight. I'd accept any artificial light as exactly that - artificial and if it casts odd coloured shadows on the cast - well, it does in real life too. I certainly would not be trying to turn the location into a studio. Tinted light is everywhere and frankly, for what you're describing, why is it a problem? You're going to have more trouble with shooting in this location for an extended period with the light outside changing.

Pete Cofrancesco · March 9th, 2020, 04:09 PM

If Ryan ever films this scene I can only imagine the deluge of problems and questions. And this time the problems might even be real not imagined. ;-)

Brian Drysdale · March 9th, 2020, 04:09 PM

Gelling the lights in a car park is way beyond your means, but you can gel your film lights so that you don't have green on the faces.

Again, talk to your DP, because they're the one who has to do all this.

Pete Cofrancesco · March 9th, 2020, 04:32 PM

What if he gelled the sun? :-p

Brian Drysdale · March 9th, 2020, 05:40 PM

I suspect the car park has mercury type lighting, which tends towards the daylight end of the spectrum. Ryan seems to be using "natural" incorrectly, implying light from the sun, rather than daylight colour temp. ambient lighting.

Ryan Elder · March 9th, 2020, 05:54 PM

Oh sorry, by natural, I meant the lights that are already in the parking garage to begin. My mis-usage. Should I have used the term practical?

I could have my own lights be the white balanced ones, and have them be tungsten lights, but I am just wondering where to hide the lights in the wide shots of the parking garage. I could hide them behind the pillars, but wonder if it would look obvious that they are lights hidden behind the pillars, if that is where the brighter lights are coming from.\

Also when it came to those two movie examples what apertures were those shot at, in the parking garages?

Ryan Elder · March 10th, 2020, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

If the scene is lit by natural light, then if you need to light the spots that are in shadow, then they need to be the same colour as the natural light.

If any of the outside is direct sunlight and not cloudy day light, then the intensity of the direct light will be very bright, and trying to boost this will be tricky. This is drifting into one of those scenes that you just cannot do properly. If the car park has a roof, and real sunlight and real shadows the contrast ratio will be very high, so if you don't want these areas of darkness, sorting them out will be very difficult.

Me personally - I'd manage the shadows and use the sunlight. I'd accept any artificial light as exactly that - artificial and if it casts odd coloured shadows on the cast - well, it does in real life too. I certainly would not be trying to turn the location into a studio. Tinted light is everywhere and frankly, for what you're describing, why is it a problem? You're going to have more trouble with shooting in this location for an extended period with the light outside changing.

Well there is only sunlight coming in into the entrance in one section of the parking garage. The rest of it is not lit by sunlight.

Ryan Elder · March 10th, 2020, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale

I;m not sure why you have the what's best thought process. If this is a dramatic highlight to your film spend the money on it and save on the talking head scenes.

When you say save on the talking head scenes, do you mean do not have as much camera movement during them in comparison?

Brian Drysdale · March 10th, 2020, 01:41 AM

Talking head scenes are the purely dialogue scenes, rather than the action ones.

Paul R Johnson · March 10th, 2020, 05:40 AM

There's me answering questions on natural light suddenly realising Ryan doesn't mean natural light at all, but artificial light. What a waste of energy that was!

Ryan - do us a favour? If you want responses, try to at least get the questions right? We're used to you asking all kinds of random things, but at least spare some thought to checking what you are asking.

If you are set on the location, then practically, you will have to shoot available light only - which might be fine - but one or two sources on stands really won't work. 20 or 30 maybe?

I've just got a repeat job, because the client has come back to me again because the space is large and troublesome. Audio is a challenge, and light sources are multi colour temperature and not able to be matched. The first job really made me think a lot, but the eventual plan worked well, the sound was far more complicated to capture than everyone would think.

Can you try to ease back on advance planning where you can never do it properly because you're imagining problems and lacking experience to solve them, when you could just visit places, look around and then come up with good plans, that we could help find the flaw in - at the moment you have NO plans, and just imagine problems where often, they really don't exist.

March 9th, 2020, 02:12 PM	#496
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Oh okay. Well in my parking garage scenario, it's a stand off between the police and villains, so the police have to be able to see down the parking garage, since that's where the villains are. I can let some parts be dark so they can hide though, but I want it to be more of a shooting stand off and chase, rather than a hide and seek game. The lights for my location are daylight balanced, so they will show up blue, if the camera is on on a 3200 kelvin white balance.

March 9th, 2020, 02:22 PM	#497
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Is the garage outside or undercover? Lighting (the real lighting) is unlikely to be 5600K or anything useful. However, shadows and contrast make the actual colour less important. Seeing everything bright and beautiful is nowhere as exciting as shadows.

March 9th, 2020, 02:26 PM	#498
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Yep not everything has to be bright and beautiful, but the characters need to actually see more than what you in All The President's Men for mine I think. The garage is indoors, but the natural lighting does illuminate more. If the shadowy ares were that large and that dark in real life, no one could see beyond 30 feet when they went to look for their cars. However, if I go with the real daylight balanced lighting, and just let it be blue, kind of like how All the President's Men, let it be green, the actors' skin is going to be magenta in the faces, but will that be okay?

March 9th, 2020, 03:00 PM	#499
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Reality and how you film and light a scene in a feature film are two entirely different things. You're interested in drama, not assisting people to park their cars! You can use gels to colour correct the lights on the actor's faces, assuming that you're not using the LED film lights that have a wide range of colour controls.

March 9th, 2020, 03:35 PM	#500
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Oh okay, but I thought we were talking about the natural lights of the locations. Gels those?

March 9th, 2020, 03:55 PM	#501
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? If the scene is lit by natural light, then if you need to light the spots that are in shadow, then they need to be the same colour as the natural light. If any of the outside is direct sunlight and not cloudy day light, then the intensity of the direct light will be very bright, and trying to boost this will be tricky. This is drifting into one of those scenes that you just cannot do properly. If the car park has a roof, and real sunlight and real shadows the contrast ratio will be very high, so if you don't want these areas of darkness, sorting them out will be very difficult. Me personally - I'd manage the shadows and use the sunlight. I'd accept any artificial light as exactly that - artificial and if it casts odd coloured shadows on the cast - well, it does in real life too. I certainly would not be trying to turn the location into a studio. Tinted light is everywhere and frankly, for what you're describing, why is it a problem? You're going to have more trouble with shooting in this location for an extended period with the light outside changing.

March 9th, 2020, 04:09 PM	#502
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? If Ryan ever films this scene I can only imagine the deluge of problems and questions. And this time the problems might even be real not imagined. ;-)

March 9th, 2020, 04:09 PM	#503
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Gelling the lights in a car park is way beyond your means, but you can gel your film lights so that you don't have green on the faces. Again, talk to your DP, because they're the one who has to do all this.

March 9th, 2020, 04:32 PM	#504
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? What if he gelled the sun? :-p

March 9th, 2020, 05:40 PM	#505
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? I suspect the car park has mercury type lighting, which tends towards the daylight end of the spectrum. Ryan seems to be using "natural" incorrectly, implying light from the sun, rather than daylight colour temp. ambient lighting.

March 9th, 2020, 05:54 PM	#506
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Oh sorry, by natural, I meant the lights that are already in the parking garage to begin. My mis-usage. Should I have used the term practical? I could have my own lights be the white balanced ones, and have them be tungsten lights, but I am just wondering where to hide the lights in the wide shots of the parking garage. I could hide them behind the pillars, but wonder if it would look obvious that they are lights hidden behind the pillars, if that is where the brighter lights are coming from.\ Also when it came to those two movie examples what apertures were those shot at, in the parking garages? Last edited by Ryan Elder; March 9th, 2020 at 06:35 PM.

March 10th, 2020, 01:41 AM	#509
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Talking head scenes are the purely dialogue scenes, rather than the action ones.

March 10th, 2020, 05:40 AM	#510
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? There's me answering questions on natural light suddenly realising Ryan doesn't mean natural light at all, but artificial light. What a waste of energy that was! Ryan - do us a favour? If you want responses, try to at least get the questions right? We're used to you asking all kinds of random things, but at least spare some thought to checking what you are asking. If you are set on the location, then practically, you will have to shoot available light only - which might be fine - but one or two sources on stands really won't work. 20 or 30 maybe? I've just got a repeat job, because the client has come back to me again because the space is large and troublesome. Audio is a challenge, and light sources are multi colour temperature and not able to be matched. The first job really made me think a lot, but the eventual plan worked well, the sound was far more complicated to capture than everyone would think. Can you try to ease back on advance planning where you can never do it properly because you're imagining problems and lacking experience to solve them, when you could just visit places, look around and then come up with good plans, that we could help find the flaw in - at the moment you have NO plans, and just imagine problems where often, they really don't exist.