What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

[Ryan Elder]

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

Interesting one, Brian. Ryan needs to watch this because it demonstrates how you can break loads of rules of normal camerawork and still have an end product that works for the purpose.

Yes I've seen The Good, the Bad and the Ugly before. And I wanted a shot like that for the chase scene. This is what I had in mind. But it was said before that it's too difficult cause I want to use a long lens, when I should use wider lenses?

As for using a gimbal, there are going to be gimbal shots, too, during the case. But I wanted a long lens panning shot from the side, cause it gives the gimbal operator a break, and not every shot during the chase, has to be a gimbal shot then.

There are going be gimbal shots from the front and back of the chase, and a long lens panning shot from the side. Or at least that is how I had it planned.

[Paul R Johnson]

You don't use a shot to give a camera operator a break - that's plain silly!

You also never told us this was the kind of shot you had in mind, or we wouldn't have wasted time with all the circular running stuff. The long lens fast panning stuff hasn't, as far as I can see, been mentioned before. If we knew that's what you had in mind, then all the go closer and wider stuff we'd not have bothered with because for this shot, a wide angle would not work. You take responses literally, without understanding context is everything. Give us poor or incomplete info and you get wrong advice.

That shot uses a very long lens, and a background that's far enough away to blur really well. I doubt your 300mm would be enough for that one.

[Josh Bass]

To be fair I always thought that's what he meant.

[Ryan Elder]

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

You don't use a shot to give a camera operator a break - that's plain silly!

You also never told us this was the kind of shot you had in mind, or we wouldn't have wasted time with all the circular running stuff. The long lens fast panning stuff hasn't, as far as I can see, been mentioned before. If we knew that's what you had in mind, then all the go closer and wider stuff we'd not have bothered with because for this shot, a wide angle would not work. You take responses literally, without understanding context is everything. Give us poor or incomplete info and you get wrong advice.

That shot uses a very long lens, and a background that's far enough away to blur really well. I doubt your 300mm would be enough for that one.

Well I also wanted the shot because I also liked how the long lens, makes the background look like it's going by faster, and thus makes the chase look more intense. I know this scene was done with a longer lens than a 300, but didn't know the location was big enough for a longer one.

In the test I did before, the 300 can still cover quite a lot for pan.

As for not knowing this is the kind of shot I wanted, I said I wanted to do a running chase shot, where I panned with the running actors, during the shot, didn't I? So I thought I explained it, or tried to before. And after I described the shot before, it was said to me to use a wide lens instead of forget the telephoto. So I was trying to go by what was suggested, cause it was said before that telephotos will not add anything to the shot I want, after I tried describing it. I also showed the video I did where the shot is of a person running where I panned with the lens, so I thought I explained it, but sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

[Brian Drysdale]

I suspect there was a range of lenses used in the scene. The film was shot in Techniscope, which is 2 perforation pull down Academy 35mm, not Super 35.

There were a range of telephoto lenses made by Kilfitt in the 1960s that went up to 600 mm

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, well for mine after the tests I did, I felt a 300mm would suffice, unless I should go longer? Not sure if the location is big enough for longer, but I can try. It might be able to do 400mm. However, in my indoor location, a large parking garage, the background will not blur, like in The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly example. Is that bad if the background will not blur, like in that movie as Paul pointed out?

[Brian Drysdale]

What stop are you using and how far away is the background from the subject?

Are they moving against the background? Because you can a strobing effect with vertical objects when you quickly pan across them when shooting with film or progressive frames.

It's only bad if it's distracting or if it's not what you want.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh I haven't decided on a stop yet. The lens I tested it with opens up to f6.3 but no wider. But I was going to get a different lens anyway for it possibly, if I get a new camera.

[Brian Drysdale]

Without knowing how far the background is from the subject and other factors it;s hard to tell, Ff6.3 is a pretty slow lens and for the crematory scene they may have used a faster and longer lens for some shots.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay. Well I can get a faster lens if that's the better. It's hard tell when it's zoomed in cause even f6.3 looks shallow on a telephoto zoomed in.

So i thought I wouldn't want to open up more if it's shallow, but if there is no such thing as too shallow and the more open, the better, than I could get a faster lens. It was said before that MFT lenses are less shallow but haven't tried one yet. But even if they are less shallow is there any type of trade off as a result?

[Paul R Johnson]

The snag is that the G,B&U clip isnt a chase - it's a travel of one person. A garage cannot have that amount of fast travel can it?

Now you've said garage, I'm surprised you dont use a car for the camera, and drive past the parked cars at the actors running speed? You've then got an option to cut away to the chaser, then cut back to the first subject, but having gone back a bit to give the impression the car park is much longer. Concrete and colours in soft focus while subject legs it would look pretty good. If it's a concrete style multi-floor structure, you also have the great edit opportunity the passing vertical supports create when you want to cheat.

In my mind I'm now seeing for the first time, a scene that could really work with your basic kit, and be complimentary to action, not a barrier.

[Brian Drysdale]

Without knowing how far the background is from the subject and other factors it;s hard to tell, Ff6.3 is a pretty slow lens and for the crematory scene they may have used faster and longer lens.

I came across this, which may be how some shots were done in the crematory scene:

"This is what legendary cinematographer Tonino Delli Colli had to say on how they made this scene: “When we filmed Eli Wallach running around the cemetery, I had the idea that in order to cut the close-up and the long shot together, I’d put a pole on the tripod and put a camera at each end of it – at one end a camera with a 25mm lens and at the other a camera with a 75mm lens. The cameras turned together, so if the actor was framed with the 75mm lens, the 25mm lens would automatically be better for editing as well. In this way, we made a lot of circles all at the same time, while Eli Wallach did a lot of running”. "

Yes, in a parking lot, putting the camera in a car would make sense or even a Quad bike, since it's not a public road Running around with a Doggicam as in Point Black would give some action.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay thanks, that scene looks like it was shot with a longer lens than a 75mm though in the shots where it looks like a longer lens was used.

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

The snag is that the G,B&U clip isnt a chase - it's a travel of one person. A garage cannot have that amount of fast travel can it?

Now you've said garage, I'm surprised you dont use a car for the camera, and drive past the parked cars at the actors running speed? You've then got an option to cut away to the chaser, then cut back to the first subject, but having gone back a bit to give the impression the car park is much longer. Concrete and colours in soft focus while subject legs it would look pretty good. If it's a concrete style multi-floor structure, you also have the great edit opportunity the passing vertical supports create when you want to cheat.

In my mind I'm now seeing for the first time, a scene that could really work with your basic kit, and be complimentary to action, not a barrier.

That might be an option, but then I would need an extra person to drive the car, but it might work. However, on a longer lens, it makes the actors look they are running faster, cause the background is more compressed, compared to a wider lens. So I thought that was the advantage of using a longer one.

The car might work for some shots, but if there is a miscommunication in timing between the car driver, and the camera operator, I thought that might make things more complicated compared to one person panning on a tripod, controlling it all. Plus I thought if we are driving cars around, that the insurance might go up as oppose to camera operators being on a tripod.

But when you say with a car I can pass vehicle supports to cheat, couldn't the panning pass those supports as well?

And to compare to The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, I know it's running and not chasing, but I came up with technique that I thought was best for shots during a chase, and it turns out to be the same kind of shots for running.

[Brian Drysdale]

I've shot stuff from cars and there was no increase in the insurance. You should check first, rather than making assumptions.

You should use some one with suitable driving experience, as long as there' enough space using a car or pick up shouldn't be a problem, You can use a bicycle if you want, you don't an operator if the cyclist has a monitor to frame a camera mounted onto the bicycle,

"The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" has a very busy background of grave stones which adds to the sense of movement, a parking lot doesn't have that, unless it's surrounded by vertical railings.

[Ryan Elder]

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

The snag is that the G,B&U clip isnt a chase - it's a travel of one person. A garage cannot have that amount of fast travel can it?

Now you've said garage, I'm surprised you dont use a car for the camera, and drive past the parked cars at the actors running speed? You've then got an option to cut away to the chaser, then cut back to the first subject, but having gone back a bit to give the impression the car park is much longer. Concrete and colours in soft focus while subject legs it would look pretty good. If it's a concrete style multi-floor structure, you also have the great edit opportunity the passing vertical supports create when you want to cheat.

In my mind I'm now seeing for the first time, a scene that could really work with your basic kit, and be complimentary to action, not a barrier.

Okay thanks, I thought of the bicycle before, however, here is my take on it. When using a car or a bike, I use a wider lens, right? When you ride along with the actor on a wide lens, the actor does not look like he is running as fast from the side, compared to a telephoto. The reason why, is because the telephoto makes the actor looks like they are running faster.

For example, if you are zoomed in and panning with the actor while they are running, an actor looks like he is running past a car for example, much faster, compared to a wide lens. That is because of the compression. The lack of compression in the wider lenses, makes the actors look like they are moving slower.

This was my reason for using a telephoto olens for these panning shots. Does that make sense, as to why I thought a telephoto would be more suited, compared to a wide?