What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

[Paul R Johnson]

Ryan - you have these primes yet insist on using the zoom you've already rubbished? In every scenario I can think of, your chase should not be remotely a problem.

As for the start or end being soft - I can see you creating a rule about this one. I'd advise you to forget it if you cannot understand it from Pete's comment. I think most of us know exactly what he's describing.

You now reveal you have a zoom and 3 primes. Why are we having this conversation ? You have the tools you need. Now you need to learn how to use them. My jaw is dropping undestanding why a chase scene is causing so much grief. Establishing shot showing the location, closeup of runner, cut to chasers in longshot or cloer in deoending on context, cut back to runner, cut to chaser, cut to runner, add longshot with both subjects if you wish to add in real distance. Sharp focus on runner, but blurred background, or sharp everywhere - your choice. Where does a requirement for a long running tight shot come from. Pace dictates probably cuts will be fast and furious here, not one tight shot. At least, that's how I would do it.

[Ryan Elder]

Originally Posted by Pete Cofrancesco

Are these cine lenses?

No they are Canon lenses that go on the Canon T2i camera I've had. Now if I am getting the BMPCC then I can get new lenses for that of course, yes.

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale

Do you ever think things out?

For what you're talking about an 85mm might be OK if you were shooting on 16mm film or a 2/3" video camera

Oh okay, well it was said before that I should stick to 3 wider prime lenses, so wouldn't an 85mm be okay in those 3, are is that not okay to use?

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

Oh I have a 50mm prime and a 24mm and an 85mm for my Canon T2i from before. Well by upgrade I meant use a long zoom lens if I wanted to for some shots, rather than stick to just 3 primes.

No they are Canon lenses that go on the Canon T2i camera I've had.

These are not Cine lenses. Do you not know the difference?

[Ryan Elder]

Yes I know the difference I think. The sign lenses have aperture rings on them and they do not have the option of IS if you want it. Are there other differences to be aware of? I got them cause they fit onto the camera no problem, and I just tried to use them as best as possible.

As far as cine lenses, go, I have also rented a Rokinon kit of cines from time to time for projects as well.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

Yes I know the difference I think. The sign lenses have aperture rings on them and they do not have the option of IS if you want it. Are there other differences to be aware of? I got them cause they fit onto the camera no problem, and I just tried to use them as best as possible.

As far as cine lenses, go, I have also rented a Rokinon kit of cines from time to time for projects as well.

I didn't ask you if you rented a cine lens, I asked if you own one.

You also don't understand what a Cine lens is. Their most important feature is their ability to pull focus. The lenses you have are for photography and most likely are fly by wire lenses that don't have manual focus. We've been over this before.
https://www.howtogeek.com/356738/wha...egular-lenses/

[Brian Drysdale]

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

Oh okay, well it was said before that I should stick to 3 wider prime lenses, so wouldn't an 85mm be okay in those 3, are is that not okay to use?

The shot that you seem to basing this panning shot on was probably shot at the long end of a 25mm to 250mm zoom, which was discussed before in another thread. How does an 85mm lens fit into this particular panning shot?

It might work if you mounted the camera on a vehicle and tracked along side the runner, but not if you're panning on a tripod.

The three lenses were general lenses, which you could possibly shoot the film with, if you give up the panning shot.

[Ryan Elder]

Yes I know you can pull focus on cine lenses. I want to get new lenses for the camera, yes.

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale

The shot that you seem to basing this panning shot on was probably shot at the long end of a 25mm to 250mm zoom, which was discussed before in another thread. How does an 85mm lens fit into this particular panning shot?

It might work if you mounted the camera on a vehicle and tracked along side the runner, but not if you're panning on a tripod.

The three lenses were general lenses, which you could possibly shoot the film with, if you give up the panning shot.

Well it was suggested to me on here before, not to use such a long lens. So I suggested using an 85 to do the circular track pan, since it was advised to me on here, to not use a longer lens. So I am trying to therefore, do the shot with a short lens, since it was said before, just to use three lenses.

[Brian Drysdale]

I suspect they were suggesting you find another method for you to shoot your chase scene that doesn't involve using a long focal length lens. However, since you regularly seem to be given 4 + 4 and yet manage to come up with 3 it could be a misunderstanding on your part.

[Paul R Johnson]

You are hung up on mimicking big budget cinema production - giving each shot a 'title'. You are constantly talking about this "panning shot" as if it's somehow something special, yet in your movie, it seems to be just another connecting shot in the story telling.

Pete's talking about focussing on a real cine lens, while you seem to think that turning a focus ring on a lens is pulling focus, in terms of a role, or process. You've got into thinking technical terms are indicative of the link with a role. The difference between a photography lens and a moving image lens clearly you haven't quite got a handle on, so when people give advice, they have to guess if you really mean what you ask?

I'm often left wondering if the movies you shoot would be better off made on a simple handicam - point, zoom, and shoot. Some of these have quite decent sensors, but are a balance package of components. You could plonk the camera down, jiggle the actors around and have a notional lens angle of say 73mm, rather than this mystical movie focal length of 85mm? Would it matter? For you I doubt it would - you could use the zoom to set the composition, and wouldn't need to reblock actors and move the camera.

You are trying to shoot movies with tiny bits of pro movie production technique, and this isn't working. You started out with a training course that did NOT cater for your individual learning style, so you have picked up lots of really bad habits that you cannot now shake off. You have a warped interpretation of technical matters, and have nearly understood things. People give advice. You take little strands of it, and then apply it in new situations out of context. You MUST start to try to understand this. You are building a rule book that is flawed, yet you cannot understand this, or why it has happened. You are treating movie making as a collection of little elements that when all done guarantee a great movie. Your scripts - the very basic building block of movie making are from what we've seen, not very good at all. You use actors who really cannot act, mixed in with a few who can. You struggle to direct them, or often, let them direct themselves.

Nothing you can do with technology will improve the fundamental problem. I think yesterday we finally convinced you that lenses don't magically change the speed of light, and that fast lenses can produce deep depth of field - something you really should have been aware of when trying to make buying choices. Today, your cine lenses turn out to be photographic lenses. What else have we misunderstood from your posts?

Ask yourself some questions. Do you NEED cine lenses, or will the ones you have work well enough in your production. I suspect they will. Have you ever checked how accurate the lens markings actually are? Pop one on, find a suitable subject and find the sharpest focus setting - measure it. Then change the stop and repeat. Does the sharpest point shift? You may be surprised how much it does. Next question is does it matter? To a professional focus puller, used to marking tape with pens, yes it does. If the cameraman needs to change aperture, all the marks will be wrong. Is this something you're aware of.

If your team's technique is to set up, and then focus visually and then shoot, that's actually fine - but it is not how real cinematographer crew work. Is all this stuff sorted in your head?

[Brian Drysdale]

There is a really informative and entertaining interview with Art Adams, who while discussing one of the new Arri lenses that costs more than the budget of Ryan's film, explains all the technical aspects of a cine lens and lenses in general. However,, I'm reluctant to post it since Ryan seems not to have the basic knowledge to follow it, so could become even more confused.

[Paul R Johnson]

I think it could be good Brian, if Ryan takes the time to digest and really try to understand it.

At the recent video show at Battersea - prime lenses were absolutely the product of the year - there were hundreds of them everywhere, showing I think where people are now spending their money. Finally, moving from the camera is everything, to the entire capture chain, and how critical glass is. Some of the lenses I couldn't believe the price.

[Brian Drysdale]

Here's the interview with Art Adams. It covers the subject in a pretty humorous way, there are books and articles that go into the details in more depth. This might be one of those lenses that you can't believe the cost, but you usually rent these and they last for years.

What Makes Cinema Lenses So Special!? | DEEP DIVE on Arri Signature Primes - YouTube

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Thanks for sharing that was really interesting. I think we needed a break from Ryan.

I was trying to determine if he had a cine lens (its like pulling nails) and if not get a basic set if he intends to buy the bmpc. Most any person filming a movie will want to be able to control the focus manual for technical and artistic reasons. The Rokinon a really inexpensive choice.

Who are we kidding his movie will most likely be like that Karate video. Btw what ever happened to that project? Did he ever get a final result?

[Paul R Johnson]

Brian's link was one of the most interesting ones we've had for ages - lighthearted but the Arri guy really knows how to explain these pretty complex subjects in a simple but effective manner. we should flag this video up for everyone interested in the subject to read. I learned a few things too - especially the solution to lens breathing when focussing. I'd worked out that they had solved it with clever optics, but never realised they actually do it with a small zoom working in reverse to the zoom the focussing element causes. I also did not know that lenses were mapped so that the camera could recalculate the 'repair'. No idea why I had never picked this up before.

About 8 or 9 years ago I went on a Fijinon training session on box lenses - and was amazed at the number of elements that actually moved during zoom and focus.

[Ryan Elder]

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

You are hung up on mimicking big budget cinema production - giving each shot a 'title'. You are constantly talking about this "panning shot" as if it's somehow something special, yet in your movie, it seems to be just another connecting shot in the story telling.

Pete's talking about focussing on a real cine lens, while you seem to think that turning a focus ring on a lens is pulling focus, in terms of a role, or process. You've got into thinking technical terms are indicative of the link with a role. The difference between a photography lens and a moving image lens clearly you haven't quite got a handle on, so when people give advice, they have to guess if you really mean what you ask?

I'm often left wondering if the movies you shoot would be better off made on a simple handicam - point, zoom, and shoot. Some of these have quite decent sensors, but are a balance package of components. You could plonk the camera down, jiggle the actors around and have a notional lens angle of say 73mm, rather than this mystical movie focal length of 85mm? Would it matter? For you I doubt it would - you could use the zoom to set the composition, and wouldn't need to reblock actors and move the camera.

You are trying to shoot movies with tiny bits of pro movie production technique, and this isn't working. You started out with a training course that did NOT cater for your individual learning style, so you have picked up lots of really bad habits that you cannot now shake off. You have a warped interpretation of technical matters, and have nearly understood things. People give advice. You take little strands of it, and then apply it in new situations out of context. You MUST start to try to understand this. You are building a rule book that is flawed, yet you cannot understand this, or why it has happened. You are treating movie making as a collection of little elements that when all done guarantee a great movie. Your scripts - the very basic building block of movie making are from what we've seen, not very good at all. You use actors who really cannot act, mixed in with a few who can. You struggle to direct them, or often, let them direct themselves.

Nothing you can do with technology will improve the fundamental problem. I think yesterday we finally convinced you that lenses don't magically change the speed of light, and that fast lenses can produce deep depth of field - something you really should have been aware of when trying to make buying choices. Today, your cine lenses turn out to be photographic lenses. What else have we misunderstood from your posts?

Ask yourself some questions. Do you NEED cine lenses, or will the ones you have work well enough in your production. I suspect they will. Have you ever checked how accurate the lens markings actually are? Pop one on, find a suitable subject and find the sharpest focus setting - measure it. Then change the stop and repeat. Does the sharpest point shift? You may be surprised how much it does. Next question is does it matter? To a professional focus puller, used to marking tape with pens, yes it does. If the cameraman needs to change aperture, all the marks will be wrong. Is this something you're aware of.

If your team's technique is to set up, and then focus visually and then shoot, that's actually fine - but it is not how real cinematographer crew work. Is all this stuff sorted in your head?

Yes I did know that changing the aperture changes the marks for the subjects, yes. Will the lenses I have work well enough? It depends on which ones. My two wider primes have hard stops but the longer one does not.

As for marking in the lens, I always used a grease pencil for that.

But it was suggested to me before to hire a professional DP and let them worry about the shots, rather than worrying about them myself. So should I just do that, and be comfortable putting it in their hands, without knowing everything, and stop trying to be the DP as well, and just direct?