What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

Ryan Elder · March 3rd, 2020, 01:10 PM

Oh but I wanted that sense of voyeurism too, since it's a thriller. Perhaps that is why I like those kind of shots, for this type of story, but couldn't find the word.

But I can rethink that OTS shot and think about alternatives.

What about the idea I had for wanting to see an extreme close up of the shooter's face as he shoots? If I use a shorter lens, and not a telephoto, what if I just cut to a close up of his face, as he shoots, but you do not see the gun in front of his face, cause the camera is closer to his face than the gun is. Would that work, instead of using a telephoto for an extreme close up?

Here is an example. What if when cutting to the close up of the shooter's face, I just don't show the gun, like this:

Brian Drysdale · March 3rd, 2020, 05:04 PM

Thrillers aren't usually limited to telephoto lens shots, they can be rather limiting and yours seem more televisual than cinematic in nature.

We don't know the scene, the nature of the characters etc, so asking for asking for comment is difficult,To me they suggest some sort of mental issue with the character with the gun, emotionally distant - isolated. However, I don't know if that's your intention or if I'm just reading something into the person's face, regardless of the lens being used.

Ryan Elder · March 3rd, 2020, 05:14 PM

Oh okay well I am going by my own instincts, and not going off of television. Just trying to to use my instincts for what is best for the shot.

Ryan Elder · March 4th, 2020, 12:39 AM

Well I talked to a DP I might hire, and he said we can make a 85mm lens, look like a 200mm, in terms of compression. He said we will just used forced perspective, kind of like what I was doing in my examples.

Is the DP right though, and forced perspective will work?

Brian Drysdale · March 4th, 2020, 01:13 AM

An 85mm lens makes more sense, a 200mm doesn't do anything for the dramatic content of the scene.

Ryan Elder · March 4th, 2020, 01:19 AM

Oh okay, so we should just force the perspective then, like he said?

Brian Drysdale · March 4th, 2020, 01:23 AM

I don't think it will need much forcing, but yes.

Ryan Elder · March 4th, 2020, 01:24 AM

Oh okay, but that is what I did before in the previous examples, and I was told before on here, that the forced perspective does not work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...d2u2FohXWbi1Zk

Unless it can work if we do it better?

Brian Drysdale · March 4th, 2020, 01:31 AM

It's your call, you're the director.

Ryan Elder · March 4th, 2020, 01:33 AM

Okay thanks, but I've been told on here before that pretty much everything I ask about and can it be done, is wrong, or cannot be, which is why I asking, if I would be making the wrong decision again...

Brian Drysdale · March 4th, 2020, 01:43 AM

As previously stated, we know nothing about the scene, Depending on the factors involved it may work, it just risks being very flat looking if you've got someone standing against a wall.

Ryan Elder · March 4th, 2020, 01:45 AM

Oh okay, they won't be standing against a wall in the scene. For that test shot, I just had to have someone stand against the wall, cause in order to zoom in to 200mm to get that compression, they had to stand against one end of the room, while I was on the other side, in order to get the lens far back enough while zoomed in.

But when we shoot the actual scene, location is going to be much bigger, so they won't have to stand against a wall therefore, and there will be separation in the background. Plus if we fake compression than the room size won't be much of an issue either.

Brian Drysdale · March 4th, 2020, 01:54 AM

Your test was pretty worthless in that case, since you're not placing the subject in the correct context. The wall is so overbearing it gives an incorrect visual impression of the scene as a whole.

Ryan Elder · March 4th, 2020, 02:03 AM

Oh yeah, I wasn't going to have a wall near the actor at all like that. The purpose of the test was to ask for opinions on of the forced perspective works. Not the background context. I just wanted to know if the gun in perspective to the face looks convincing, and if the actors faking the forced perspective with how far away from each other in the OTS shot worked. I had no choice but to shoot against a wall cause when I compared with the telephoto lens, I need like 30 feet of room to zoom in on the actor, thereby forcing the actor to be up against a wall for that distance. But when we actually shoot, the location will not be that restricted, and they will not be up against a wall like that. Sorry for confusion. I was just asking if the forced perspective would work, if one could read between the lines, and forget about the wall in the background.

So does that mean all the input before is invalid now, if the background was what was being thought about?

Brian Drysdale · March 4th, 2020, 02:15 AM

Shooting with telephoto lens indoors is very restrictive, so, unless in a very large building, it's best avoided because of the limitations. It's also time consuming, so unless shooting a commercial or a particular moment, the standard range of focal lengths work best. You can easily shoot an entire drama with a single lens in the 32mm to 50mm range, it's a lot more difficult and restricting with a 200mm.

Context matters with a shot, you're obsessing about a detail that gets lost within the scene as a whole. What works in one location may not work in another.

We can't macro manage your lens selection, this is a job for you and your DP, possibly on the day the scene is being filmed.

March 3rd, 2020, 01:10 PM	#331
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Oh but I wanted that sense of voyeurism too, since it's a thriller. Perhaps that is why I like those kind of shots, for this type of story, but couldn't find the word. But I can rethink that OTS shot and think about alternatives. What about the idea I had for wanting to see an extreme close up of the shooter's face as he shoots? If I use a shorter lens, and not a telephoto, what if I just cut to a close up of his face, as he shoots, but you do not see the gun in front of his face, cause the camera is closer to his face than the gun is. Would that work, instead of using a telephoto for an extreme close up? Here is an example. What if when cutting to the close up of the shooter's face, I just don't show the gun, like this: extreme close up test 2 - YouTube Last edited by Ryan Elder; March 3rd, 2020 at 04:04 PM.

March 3rd, 2020, 05:04 PM	#332
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Thrillers aren't usually limited to telephoto lens shots, they can be rather limiting and yours seem more televisual than cinematic in nature. We don't know the scene, the nature of the characters etc, so asking for asking for comment is difficult,To me they suggest some sort of mental issue with the character with the gun, emotionally distant - isolated. However, I don't know if that's your intention or if I'm just reading something into the person's face, regardless of the lens being used.

March 3rd, 2020, 05:14 PM	#333
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Oh okay well I am going by my own instincts, and not going off of television. Just trying to to use my instincts for what is best for the shot.

March 4th, 2020, 12:39 AM	#334
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Well I talked to a DP I might hire, and he said we can make a 85mm lens, look like a 200mm, in terms of compression. He said we will just used forced perspective, kind of like what I was doing in my examples. Is the DP right though, and forced perspective will work?

March 4th, 2020, 01:13 AM	#335
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? An 85mm lens makes more sense, a 200mm doesn't do anything for the dramatic content of the scene.

March 4th, 2020, 01:19 AM	#336
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Oh okay, so we should just force the perspective then, like he said?

March 4th, 2020, 01:23 AM	#337
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? I don't think it will need much forcing, but yes.

March 4th, 2020, 01:24 AM	#338
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Oh okay, but that is what I did before in the previous examples, and I was told before on here, that the forced perspective does not work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...d2u2FohXWbi1Zk Unless it can work if we do it better?

March 4th, 2020, 01:31 AM	#339
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? It's your call, you're the director.

March 4th, 2020, 01:33 AM	#340
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Okay thanks, but I've been told on here before that pretty much everything I ask about and can it be done, is wrong, or cannot be, which is why I asking, if I would be making the wrong decision again...

March 4th, 2020, 01:43 AM	#341
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? As previously stated, we know nothing about the scene, Depending on the factors involved it may work, it just risks being very flat looking if you've got someone standing against a wall.

March 4th, 2020, 01:45 AM	#342
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Oh okay, they won't be standing against a wall in the scene. For that test shot, I just had to have someone stand against the wall, cause in order to zoom in to 200mm to get that compression, they had to stand against one end of the room, while I was on the other side, in order to get the lens far back enough while zoomed in. But when we shoot the actual scene, location is going to be much bigger, so they won't have to stand against a wall therefore, and there will be separation in the background. Plus if we fake compression than the room size won't be much of an issue either.

March 4th, 2020, 01:54 AM	#343
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Your test was pretty worthless in that case, since you're not placing the subject in the correct context. The wall is so overbearing it gives an incorrect visual impression of the scene as a whole.

March 4th, 2020, 02:03 AM	#344
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Oh yeah, I wasn't going to have a wall near the actor at all like that. The purpose of the test was to ask for opinions on of the forced perspective works. Not the background context. I just wanted to know if the gun in perspective to the face looks convincing, and if the actors faking the forced perspective with how far away from each other in the OTS shot worked. I had no choice but to shoot against a wall cause when I compared with the telephoto lens, I need like 30 feet of room to zoom in on the actor, thereby forcing the actor to be up against a wall for that distance. But when we actually shoot, the location will not be that restricted, and they will not be up against a wall like that. Sorry for confusion. I was just asking if the forced perspective would work, if one could read between the lines, and forget about the wall in the background. So does that mean all the input before is invalid now, if the background was what was being thought about?

March 4th, 2020, 02:15 AM	#345
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Shooting with telephoto lens indoors is very restrictive, so, unless in a very large building, it's best avoided because of the limitations. It's also time consuming, so unless shooting a commercial or a particular moment, the standard range of focal lengths work best. You can easily shoot an entire drama with a single lens in the 32mm to 50mm range, it's a lot more difficult and restricting with a 200mm. Context matters with a shot, you're obsessing about a detail that gets lost within the scene as a whole. What works in one location may not work in another. We can't macro manage your lens selection, this is a job for you and your DP, possibly on the day the scene is being filmed.