What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

[Paul R Johnson]

Ryan - how many times must we say something before you believe it? You really ARE obsessed with long lenses. You are also getting obsessed with mimicing movies you like. It is a very flawed way of working. You are seriously considering the purchase/no purchase of a camera by one shot in one movie? All the good stuff you can shoot in it's lifespan discounted by a few seconds that will probably not work anyway.

This is likebuying a drone and learning how to work it for one shot - if the shot is critical, then get somebody in to do it.

You have an option to return the camera,so for goodness sake, use it!

I think we are all thinking the same - your night sequence is going to be awful. I'm sorry, but you have told us all about it, and we're not worrying about technicalities at all - we're thinking about how you will shoot it. You cannot imagine what the arc 'trick' will look like, you can't visualise what on the cheap night lighting will look like, and the script is being mangled to make it fit - like the mangling you did to the time movie when locations went astray and for some bizarre reason they ended up in a field?

Do you have that old saying "walk, don't run"? You constantly want to run and never walk anywhere - in fact you constantly want to run marathons. At what point do you stop and spend time getting better - at anything? You seem to jump from struggle to struggle, never stopping to master your craft. I also can't believe you spend time watching movies and remember short sequences from them to go back to and try to copy. So many of your examples are from movies I saw in the 70s - and I remember the story, but I certainly didn;t even remember the night scene in Dirty Harry. What on earth made you pick it out?

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay but it's not just one shot. I can use telephoto lenses for several shots though. What made you think it was just one?

As for being inspired by len choice shots in other movies, is that really a bad thing? What's wrong with panning along with characters on a long lens? Sure other movies have done it, but is it so wrong to do it again?

I thought of Dirty Harry, because I was looking for movies where a lot of the night shots were dark in several sections of the shot. The reason why I was using older movies as examples, is because so many movies shot today, they are so brightly lit that I cannot compete with that. So I was using older movies as examples since they relied on less light it seems, at least in the examples I gave. As for the script being mangled, why is it mangled? And the thing is, I am told to come up with creative solutions, but every time I do, I am told it's not good and won't do. I thought of a camera with really high ISO to compensate, as a creative solution. But now I am told it wont do. So how am I suppose to think of creative solutions, when the technology, doesn't seem to support them, or what am I doing wrong?

Plus it was said on here before that I should come up with my own style of shooting rather than relying on other movies. So I try to come up with my own style, which does involve longer lenses for a lot of the shots, but then I am told I am obsessed with longer lenses. So how am I suppose to be come up with my own style, and not be too obsessed then?

As for walking, and not running, well what if instead of obsessing on how to get the shots, I just hire a DP, and leave it up to him/her then? Should I just do that and not worry about it so much? I am also not just purchasing a camera for one shot. I was told I should upgrade from my Canon T2i. Unless the Canon T2i is good to shoot at night on, with not the fastest lens and not the brightest lights?

Here's another idea though. I wanted telephoto lenses for compression in some shots as well. Such as an OTS shot where the actors are really close to each other, or a shot of someone pointing a gun, but making the gun look really close to the face. What if I just had the actor hold the gun really close to the face, and fake the compression. For example, here are some tests, of trying to fake the compression. Is this a workable solution, to getting these types of shots?

And instead panning along actors on a telephoto lens, what if I panned with them on an 85mm lens instead and run on the arc like suggested. Would that be better, cause then I can have the aperture more open on an 85mm with not as shallow of a DOF, compared to a telephoto at the same aperture?

Or I could just fully place this into a DPs hands without having to worry about if the script will work or not and just fully leave it up to them while I concentrate on other things in the directing process?

[Brian Drysdale]

An 85mm lens isn't a "telephoto" lens unless you're using a small sensor.

You've got many advantages over the feature films made in the early 1970s, they used 100ASA film, which they could only force a stop. The digital cameras can show more detail in the shadows compared to film, you've got access to more faster lenses than was available then. If you wish to lose shadow detail you can compress the blacks in the colour correction..

Some of the old films may have been shot with anamorphic lenses, which look different to flat lenses. Shooting with long lenses is very restricting, I know because I've worked on commercials that only used them The shots take a lot longer,to set up and you end up with the camera outside the room. You have to be consistent, otherwise it isn't a look, more just a few long lens shots in the middle of a film. ,

However, all this won't improve you film because you don't seem to be paying attention to the important stuff for a low budget feature film. Again, all this is stuff you should be discussing with your DP because, since it's a freebie or a near one (given the budget), they're the ones probably providing the kit.

[Ryan Elder]

Okay thanks, I know an 85mm is not a telephoto, it's just it was said that I am obsessed with telephoto lenses so I thought maybe I could be more flexible and pan with an 85 instead, while the actor runs in a circle as I pan. The only thing is, the actor does not have as big of circle to run for very long, if that's okay?

It's just I am trying to be flexible on the telephoto lens idea, since I was told I am obsessed?

I talked to a few DPs and one said to use lenses with high ISOs though, if that is the way to go, since it was said before on here, not to go over 1250 on the ISO? I guess I just like getting other opinions too, and feel uncomfortable leaving all the answers in the hands of the DP, hoping every decision he/she will make, will be right.

When you say I am not paying enough attention to the important stuff, what would the important stuff be? The script and acting? I am concentrating a lot on that too, but since this forum deals a lot with the technology, I thought it was more proper to discuss that portion of the filmmaking on here, rather than the script and acting. I discussed the scriptwriting parts on a writing forum for example, unless I should be discussing those on here as well?

[Brian Drysdale]

Regarding the 85mm, it all depends on how tight a shot you're using, what size of sensor you;re using, how fast they're running and if your camera operator can move around the tripod legs fast enough.

Changing the ISO to a very high level will change the look of your film, you want the noise levels to look consistent. Also, what is acceptable noise to one DP can be totally unacceptable to another.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay thanks. Well one filmmaker I helped out on some projects before, said that on a telephoto, with a deeper aperture, an ISO around 3000-4000 should be enough he said, as long as that looks good.

If the camera operator can run around the tripod fast enough, will the audience notice that the actor has ran around the room over and over again, rather than taking longer since they are suppose to running from one side of the room to the other? As long as the audience doesn't notice that.

Also, if I don't use a telephoto lens at night, is it possible to fake compression for some of the shots, where I want high compression if I use an 85mm instead? For example I did some tests. Two of these shots are telephoto with high compression and the other two were done on an 85mm lens where I tried to cheat the compression. Does cheating the compression work on non-telephoto:

compression tests - YouTube

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Strictly speaking anything over 50mm is telephoto. 85mm is mild but the m4/3 cameras have 2x crop making it 170mm.

You’re wasting your time. After all the talk he made here for over a year he has never bought anything. I couldn’t even convince him to buy a $20 power adapter. Whatever the reason he doesn’t have the ability to buy anything no less a camera. He’s already been given the advice to get a BM camera but he proceeds to ask about the gh5. I don’t care what he gets but he isn’t really getting anything.

It’s weird sometimes when he talks he makes sense and then he says f11 for a night scene... he has no clue. It’s been said countless times not to emulate commercial movies and most any decent camera will work if properly lit.

Stop talking about iso and film numbers like you can plan out ahead of time without ever using said camera.

pointless

[Brian Drysdale]

Yes, I was debating if I should put telephoto in quotes. It also varies with the sensor size.

You can't tell anything from YouTube videos, project the original onto a large screen and decide then if the noise levels are acceptable to you personally. Regarding the gun shots, they are are all pretty bland and I don't get what you're obsessing about.

Are you talking about your night exterior or an interior when using the arc trick? They are very different because the background visual cues are usually closer with the interior, you should be able to visualise these yourself.

I wouldn't go that high an ISO just to get DOF, f11 for a night scene on a long lens is just crazy stuff.

Even A RED doesn't look good unless you light properly. Sure it looks sharp with lots of resolution. but it can look pretty bland without the lighting.

[Paul R Johnson]

We also covered the problems with longer lenses and tracking shots ages ago. Remember Ryan? We talked about the need for much better pan/tilt heads, solid support? Filling a frame with a person is no big deal, but keeping things steady is a killer. If you follow somebody at a distance, your start, run and stop speeds need very careful handling. I used to do do quite a few airshows in the 90's and following an aircraft at a diagonal is the worst thing I think I had to manage, and I got a post head to assist me.

With long lenses, I always try to avoid them, moving in close because the lenses let in more light, have deeper DoF and are much less reactive to wobble.

I also wonder if you've actually considered the lighting for these night shots. If you are using available light - where does this come from? Is it bright enough, or are you shooting the black cat in a coal mine? If you need light, can you actually produce it? I've never had much luck shooting in the night time at all with artificial lights because of the noise the generators I could afford produce.

Let's get down to basics. Do you have the funds to buy your new camera and a lens? Perhaps if you said I have $X, what do you suggest we could be helpful. You seem to want to buy a BMC, which I see getting good reviews, but you want to put a very basic lens on it? This will perhaps introduce all those issues you had with your current lens? If the lens you are thinking of has a maximum aperture of f5.6, then is it actually a good lens? I don't know - you never give enough detail for anything other than general answers.

I found this forum https://www.writingforums.org/thread...-elder.138659/

Ryan did exactly the same in their script forum - and looks like in the end he got banned. The style of the responses is identical to what we have here. Indeed many of his questions here were actually raised by him 3 or 4 years ago - so these script ideas are hardly new!

[Brian Drysdale]

Regarding the writing forum, I see one person lost the will to live on what sounds like Ryan's cop thriller.

Ryan really needs to be able to do an analysis of his own ideas and work, because it can get to the stage where other people are putting more work into this process than Ryan himself. If he can't develop his own sense of judgment he';s wasting his time wanting to be a director.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

I found this forum https://www.writingforums.org/thread...-elder.138659/

Ryan did exactly the same in their script forum - and looks like in the end he got banned. The style of the responses is identical to what we have here. Indeed many of his questions here were actually raised by him 3 or 4 years ago - so these script ideas are hardly new!

I glanced at some of his posts from that forum, he exhibits the same pattern of behavior we see here. He has very odd and disturbing script/story that don't make sense. Endless questions that never lead anywhere productive despite receiving well thought out responses. I can't see any different result taking place here. Very telling he was banned on that forum.

I can't see him producing this movie or buying any professional equipment. We are basically responding to the ramblings of someone who has serious issues.

[Ryan Elder]

Okay well, I can buy the equipment, get a DP and start making a movie then, if that's best. Do I worry too much about things going wrong and keep asking too much, and just need to do it? Should I not worry so much about every little thing, and leave a lot of those worries up to the other departments I hire?

[Brian Drysdale]

If you buy a camera would depend on if you need a camera after the shoot on the film.

There are lots of cinematography books that you can read on the subject and these go into more detail than you will get in a forum. The only thing that they won't cover are the latest cameras or lights, but most of the books are pretty general, so that the information is still generally pretty applicable.

Most of your questions can be handled by your heads of department.

[Ryan Elder]

Okay thanks, I have one book that talks about cinematography, but it's mostly dialogue scenes, where if for thriller scenes with lots of moving around, it gets more complicated. The book also talks about how to shoot things without cheating the camera, or thinking outside the box so much, so maybe I need a book that talks a lot more on how to do that correctly? I can try to find books on those too. And no, I don't necessarily need a camera afterwards, it's just that people in the community keep on expecting me to have my own camera.

They want me to be a videographer, and handle all the jobs, aside from directing, when it comes to jobs and gigs out there. So it seems they expect it of me, even though I am told I should just concentrate on directing only. As for doing an analysis of my own ideas and work, I have done that quite a few times I thought, or what could I be doing differently there?

[Brian Drysdale]

You sound like someone who only wants to learn how to do one thing, rather than having the whole skill set that you need for the job, It's like learning to do one thing with a NLE, but not knowing how to fully use the NLE.