Does it look bad as a director trying to break in, not to have my own camera?

[Ryan Elder]

A lot of times, other filmmakers who will ask if I have my own to help them shoot something, and then they seem surprised when I tell them that I normally get another cinematographer or videographer who has their own to shoot. I mean I do that Canon T2i i mentioned on here before, but it's crap.

I own a telephoto lens, but that's because most camera operators do not use them, so I have them use it for telephoto shots I want. I have a crappy DSLR camera from 2010 which I have used for practice, but wouldn't want to use it on other people's shoots.

But does it make a bad impression if I don't have my own camera, when I am trying to make connections and break in? I keep being asked be the camera operator on shoots though, so if that is the job I keep being offered, and I'm trying to get ahead in the industry, should I just bite the bullet and be a camera operator, before being a director?

[Brian Drysdale]

Directors don't need a camera, you only need one if you're also doing the camera work and even then many DP don't own a camera, they hire them.

You get work where you can get it, if you are being offered work to do camera, at the lower end it has advantages owning your own camera. However, you do need to know if you're getting paid for this and the market you're aiming at.

All this has nothing about being a director, since most camera people don't end up being directors. Documentary and corporate people commonly do both jobs, drama is different, as can be high end flagship documentaries.

[Paul R Johnson]

The Lighting Designer that does loads of International, megastar shows all over the world is engaged because he's a damn good lighting designer. His role doesn't require equipment. In fact, quite a few professional documentary makers, broadcast stringers and other camer professionals no longer own kit because every project is different. If they need a Red, they hire one in, or maybe an Arri, or a Varicam, or a GoPro.

Your friends ask you because you're probably too cheap. If they ask you to 'direct', they might really just want a cheap video.

This is much of your trouble - you boom, you record audio, you run cameras, you try to direct, you just make movies and you are getting known as a jack of all trades who works for little money and tries to do every single job himself. You could specialise, but you seem to choose not to. If they are surprised when you say you get somebody else in to do these roles, then this type of client will dump you and go to them direct, because they just don't understand how it works and are not expecting a movie, just a typical small business video guy who shoots weddings, graduations and shows. They do NOT want a movie, just video.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Reading his posts I would share the same confusion what Ryan is, does or wants to be. Clearly he likes cinema but that alone doesn’t make you qualified to make or direct a film. I like cooking and enjoy making recipes at home and watching cooking shows but that doesn’t mean I’d be good at working or running a restaurant.

You say you want to be a director but then say you don’t enjoy directing actors and don’t exhibit leadership skills...

You also have tried and not liked doing many of task of making a film. While I can’t blame you it is a difficult process I’m not sure where that leaves you. On your own film you can give yourself any title and delegate everything you don’t want to do but that’s not going to translate well to anything outside of that bubble.

Back to your initial question, the camera is the primary tool and should be provided by whom ever is leading the project either they should own or rent it.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh I enjoy directing actors, I was just told that I was not the best at it, so therefore I thought maybe that portion of the directing should be left to a co-director maybe, or someone to get second opinions on for the performances.

I actually do want to do just one main job if I'm not directing and that is recording sound. I have much better audio equipment than video, and I feel I am better at it than video. But if I apply to record sound, like I often do, they will say they have that covered and they just want video instead. But they don't ask me to shoot videos like weddings often. We're talking actual short films here, with actors. The newest one they asked me to shoot is more higher budget with a SAG cast, and the pay is much better, so I wonder if I should take the camera operator position with my camera, if that's what they want, since they turned down my application to record sound, and asked me to shoot camera instead.

[Paul R Johnson]

Are these people mad? You want to do sound and have to 'apply'??? then they ask you to do video, which you're ill equipped to do? It really sounds like they're incompetent. If we assume they are effective and knowledgeable, then they will have sought out the best people for each role. Do they want YOU, as Director, or you as somebody who has a camera that nobody else has?

You need to actualise this - WHY do they not want you to do sound, but they want you do camera op, when you are ill equipped and have already had so many issues with cameras that you want to give up and do audio - which you also seem weak on.


I really don't understand Ryan. Best advice is always to play to your strengths, yet you are about to expose your weaknesses all over again.

It's higher budget - enough to pay union rates to the actors, what about the production crew? Will you get an appropriate camera op fee AND they pay for the equipment hire?

I smell a rat being played on you again. Please stop accepting being taken for a sucker. If the sound recordist has his own equipment of a suitable standard he's going to be expensive - so probably what? $400 a day (difficult for me to swap UK to US) What's a camera operator worth with no kit? probably broadly similar. Specify a nice camera, lens and grip package and see what they say/

[Ryan Elder]

Well they said they already have the sound equipment and will do it, but need someone to operator camera. That is what they said. As for the equipment fee, I didn't go over that with them yet, cause I didn't say yes yet, but I could go over that first, without saying yes.

[Paul R Johnson]

they are as mad as a box of frogs!

[Pete Cofrancesco]

It’s clear to me they are hiring people based on the equipment they own. They don’t have a camera so if Ryan brings in a camera he can be a camera operator. They must have already found someone who owns their own audio equipment.

[Ryan Elder]

Yeah that's what I thought to, but at the same time, I am trying to make connections, and there will be actors and other crew there, plus it's higher paying than I've worked before, so a part of me says go for it maybe... They the same people who hired me to do their short films before, and wanted me to do camera mostly. They actually wanted me to do sound last time, which I preferred, but then that day, before I came I got a message asking if I could bring my camera and do that instead.

[Paul R Johnson]

Ryan - HUGE alarm bells should be ringing. You say they have money and are hiring actors who are in the Guild? Paying real actors rates?

Yet they behave like college students, hiring people for their equipment.

If they have money - do they also have contracts, accounts that tax authorities would work with, insurance, money actually in the bank? Do they give you a proper clear paperwork pack with times, duties, roles, sundry item recovery information, or is it Hi - Ryan, can you bring your camera and we've found somebody else to do sound, so we'd love to have you and your equipment for $x for a few days, details to follow?

Ot sounds terrible to me. Amateurs with money are the worst people to work for.

[Ryan Elder]

Yes they definitely put more money into the acting talent compared to the crew talent.

[Josh Bass]

Ryan, buddy...regardless of budget etc. these are garbage projects. You might want to start posting the email chains/communications you have about upcoming/potential jobs, and people here can start telling you if they're dumpster fires you should avoid (so far, all seem to have been).

Like they said, just 'cause they have money doesn't mean it's not a waste of your time. You want projects on which you can GROW and LEARN. These are not them.

Several hints that you are about to join a dumpster fire:

-people suddenly ask you to completely change the role youre doing for them (“can you shoot instead of doing sound?”)

-people ask you to provide gear not associated with your job title, i.e. directors would not typically need to provide a cam unless they are also the DP and those things will generally be done by separate people in all but the lowest budget projects

Seriously, start posting all their responses so people can tell you "yes this seems legit" or "no, run away and change your address". Hell, post ads youre thinking of responding to but havent yet, so you dont even waste your time to begin with.

That's also, of course assuming that these are REAL projects and not complete scams (there's a scam going around Houston, where I live, right now involving a company called Umoon Productions. There may very well be a real Umoon productions based out of Thailand -- they have a Vimeo page with samples etc. --- but that is not who is actually contacting people). So that's another fun thing to watch out for.

[Rainer Listing]

Just make your movie. The T2i is fine.

[Ryan Elder]

Originally Posted by Josh Bass

Ryan, buddy...regardless of budget etc. these are garbage projects. You might want to start posting the email chains/communications you have about upcoming/potential jobs, and people here can start telling you if they're dumpster fires you should avoid (so far, all seem to have been).

Like they said, just 'cause they have money doesn't mean it's not a waste of your time. You want projects on which you can GROW and LEARN. These are not them.

Several hints that you are about to join a dumpster fire:

-people suddenly ask you to completely change the role youre doing for them (“can you shoot instead of doing sound?”)

-people ask you to provide gear not associated with your job title, i.e. directors would not typically need to provide a cam unless they are also the DP and those things will generally be done by separate people in all but the lowest budget projects

Seriously, start posting all their responses so people can tell you "yes this seems legit" or "no, run away and change your address". Hell, post ads youre thinking of responding to but havent yet, so you dont even waste your time to begin with.

That's also, of course assuming that these are REAL projects and not complete scams (there's a scam going around Houston, where I live, right now involving a company called Umoon Productions. There may very well be a real Umoon productions based out of Thailand -- they have a Vimeo page with samples etc. --- but that is not who is actually contacting people). So that's another fun thing to watch out for.

Okay thanks, but I also want to make other connections though. I've met other cast and crew that I worked with as a result so far, so I thought that even a garbage project is good for that, if you can find other good connections...

Plus they are also tempting me with higher pay than other projects I have worked on before. Right now the current project has a budget of 50K, and investors may give them 4 million after the promotional trailer is shot, or at least they said.

Plus they have a named actor attached, so maybe it will turn out not half bad, budget, wise, if they have named actor attached?