Does it look bad as a director trying to break in, not to have my own camera?

[Josh Bass]

Here's the thing, people ALWAYS say that stuff. How often is true? Pretty much never. Somewhere along the line, people starting telling filmmakers to "sound bigger than you really are", so everyone feeds everyone else a line of BS about how they're in talks with this network or that studio, and have this actor attached. If that stuff has any truth to it, it's the barest thread of a hint (i.e. they sent an email to someone at a newtork, or sent a script to that actor's agent). Anything that isn't 100% verified is highly suspect.

I still say based on everything you've said in every thread for that past year that you've so far attached yourself to garbage projects with clueless people attached to them. Yes, there is something to be said for networking, but the problem is this is the only stuff you've worked on, so you come away with these crazy ideas about how things can/should/could be done.

I think you should PA or intern on a real, honest-to-God budgeted project with an experienced crew/director etc. for a month or however long it lasts. I don't know how to tell you how to find those, but here's a hint: again, based on everything you've told us, if you're qualified for anything more than PA or intern on a project, it's probably not the right kind for you. The "real" ones don't just ask people to be sound guys or cam ops, they hire experienced, specialized folks for that stuff. Even the assistants to those people have to know their jobs/related gear inside and out. *I* would not be qualified to do anything more than those jobs on any set (unless it was insanely down in the dirt low end), and I feel like I'm at exactly your level as a filmmaker.

Not trying to be jerk here, but I have read most everything you've written on here and I feel like I know what I'm talking about.

[Ryan Elder]

Yeah I know what you mean but since I met the named actor with them that they talked about, I know that part is true... About the 4 million. Is it bad to ask for some proof on that before signing on? I've done PA on some feature film and short film shoots so far as well.

[Paul R Johnson]

Named actors have to eat. Ian the diary is empty, then assuming they can be assured the movie will not paint them badly, they'll do it for minimums, or even less if convinced it's worth doing.

50K for a movie is not a big budget once they start talking about paying actors, and crew, plus the other stuff that kills budgets. Investors do NOT put in 4 million to a 50K project. it's ludicrous. What kind of people able to invest (not give) 4 million would be interested in people working at 50k levels? It makes no sense.

I'd really want to look into these people's finances before spending my own money. I'd also wonder if the 50K is properly budgeted and controlled - especially as there's no mention of contracts. Let's assume they're paying people at the very lowest kind of rate. How long is the shooting schedule? Have you even got dates? You know the people involved. Can you make the figures work for a paid production?

Dreamers is possibly the best description of them?

[Ryan Elder]

Oh they said that the investor is willing to put in 4K because of the named actor being interested now. I've gotten shoot dates so far, yes. And even if it's low pay, it's still higher than what I have had so far. So I thought maybe it's worth it for the money. I also talked them into having me do sound if I were to sign on, since I have better sound equipment and much comfortable in that area, compared to camera.

[Paul R Johnson]

If you were the producer, how would you select the crew who are critical to the success? What would you put in an advert, what skills would you want, how many successes on the CV/resume? I cannot think of a single time when I asked somebody to do lights and they asked to do sound, or asked a director to run cameras? Huge alarm bells are ringing. In a production shortly I note there is no sound No.1 in the box. Everyone is suggesting good sound folk, but unless we find somebody good soon, the role will go to another sound type, just a less well known and competent one - NOT a lighting or video guy. I am quite comfy with sound, yet nobody asked me to cover this one. The business does not work with generalists. If you have nice sound gear (but can't get your head around boom noises) then would you expect the to trust you based on their historic viewpoint of your skill areas? You're only as good as your last job. A job starting in November has every single technical role going to people I trust. Two of them are not technically strong, but they're reliable and I can cover their weak areas because their benefits in other areas make up for it. None of them would make the list for anything other than what they are known for.

[Josh Bass]

Yep...that right there tells me this is not a legit production. One does not say “can I do sound?” and have that work out well for them. Producers/whoever hires crew would typically start calling down a list of established sound folks with verifiable/legit credits. I know you say you are “more comfortable with sound” but your threads on here tell me you are not the kind of personnel I am talking about.

[Ryan Elder]

Well I'd be happy being just a pa, but they are picking me for sound now...

[Josh Bass]

That probably means you won't be learning anything (useful) on this project.

[Rainer Listing]

You learn something useful on every project. Since this has turned in to career advice, money in video comes from commercials, corporate (love corporate, conferences and training) and (ugh) weddings. Do mainly that. Making movies is more like amateur theater. It can be fun. Why not forget about money from this source (at least for now) and just enjoy making some movies. Join your local movie making network. Get some creds from local and maybe national festivals, (local, helps if the organisers sister is in your movie, among my creds is 2007 Film Networking Industry Association Best Short Film, meaningless, from an entry of half a dozen, but looks good on a CV, and you get some trophies. Get on the mail list for your State Film Industry Office and go to their functions. Note some of these are lucky if they can attract one production annually, and that hires hardly any local crew. Or go to film school. You make lots of movies and get some contacts.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, and the reason I do it for others is to make connections, when they work with new people and all.

People say I should send my last short into festivals, so I can try a few with that.

Actually for the first shoot, they tried doing audio themselves, but they said they cannot do it at all, and want me to do it now...

[Ryan Elder]

Actually they shot their first sequence, which is a scene at a campfire. However, they didn't use lights, and just used the campfire, but they said it turned out really good so far. I haven't seen the footage yet. But is it possible make a campfire look good without lights, when it is just a fire, or does it sound like they are doing things badly?

[Paul R Johnson]

Perfectly possible with the right equipment and techniques, but based on what you've said so far, I suspect perhaps less success than claimed.

[Brian Drysdale]

How good a camp fire lighting the scene looks depends on the dynamic range of your cameras, how acceptable any clipping is to the DP and the director and how close the subjects are to the fire. It's the sort of scene that film was better at than video because of the highlight handling, but with 14 to 15 stops now available on some digital cameras, it should be manageable with care.

However, in this case, it may be be just the thought they could do it. This isn't anything new, it's more how good the flames look in their scene.

[Paul R Johnson]

In a way, the only killer would be noise in the blacks. It's the kind of scene that can have over saturated face tones, over bright flames and deep shadows, and the audience almost expect it. If they see people speaking who are soft, sparkles in the noise and critical things unlit - they notice those, so one of those scenes where less than ideal technical issues can be masked.

Were you not supposed to be doing audio?

[Brian Drysdale]

Like all lighting, it's a balance between your highlights, the shadows and placing your subjects correctly.

Kubrick Candles - YouTube