Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?

[Brian Drysdale]

Having a disturbing subject doesn't concern me, some of the best films have content like that, it's how you tell the story.

There are stories everywhere. If you've been working on this one for years and it's not happening, perhaps it's time to put it on the back burner for a while. Also, given your limited budget, it would be very compromised production. The emotions required would be demanding on your actors and you seem to have difficulty directing actors.

I would try to find a story that unique to your part of the world, your regional libraries may have material that you can dig out. That's where writers often find stories, just by rooting around and finding sources that spark their imagination.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, I don't know what goes on in my part of the world that would be good for a movie though. That's kind of why I wanted to a do story that could happen in many places, without being locked down to a particular area.

I haven't been trying to make it for months, I only showed it to some other filmmakers I know a few weeks ago actually. But it seems lots of filmmaker experience this though, where they want to make a script but may have trouble attracting talent for it though, like Hitchcock did for Psycho, or Kimberly Peirce did for Boys Don't Cry, etc. So I thought it was a normal part of the process before you find the people who want to do it, and I haven't really started looking much yet since I only showed it to the filmmakers I've worked with so far.

[Josh Bass]

I had to look up beta readers to find out what they were, and after doing so, I dont think its a great indicator of your idea/script quality. What about what someone here suggested, sending the script to one, or even several of the pro script readers who can give you feedback from a professional standpoint regarding whether this thing has a chance of going anywhere? Maybe it costs way too much to be worth it but maybe it doesnt and you could spend a little money now to save a lot more later (by diverting your energy toward a better project).

I confess I did not watch all of Timewine, but I sort of get the gist. It seemed like kind of a cool idea. So you have good ideas (current project is probably not one). In that sci fi/sci fi adjacent genre there is a low budget indie called Primer that got some acclaim. Made for something like $7000, next to zero special effects. They found ways to convey their ideas through clever storytelling and writing and didnt need blood, gun fights, car chases, explosions, flashing lights etc. You could maybe come up with a concept like that. And scifi can be a marketable genre, as I understand it.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, I actually tried coming up with a script a feature length script for Tinewine before, but it's about guys who get rich through time travel, and I don't think I could afford rich exotic looking locations. That's one of the reasons why the short failed I think cause of the locations not being convincing on the budget. But perhaps I could do something like that.

Actually I had a Santa Claus story script my filmmaking friends were excited about but I was talked out of it by some other filmmakers I asked, cause they said it would cost too much money for the sets, of Santa's factory, and North Pole locations, and things like that. But they were much more interested in that one before.

I was also asked to co-direct a sci-fi action thriller movie, planned on being shot next year, if the producers can raise the money for it.

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

I had a Santa Claus story script my filmmaking friends were excited about...

I was also asked to co-direct a sci-fi action thriller movie...

If in doubt, combine both. To wit:

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[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, well it's not my script, so I cannot combine both :).

[Josh Bass]

theyre being jokey with you I think, to justify posting that clip.

Maybe rent primer to see how those guys (who had never made a film of any kind before, and whose director boomed on someone else’s feature to learn how filmmaking works...sound familiar?) made a cool sci fi story without flashy anything (at least from what I remember...maybe there are a few fx shots). It could open your mind.

[Ryan Elder]

Yeah I saw Primer before. I don't have any ideas for a low budget sci-fi. I just figure that I might as well do the script I already have, since it's the lowest budget one I have. I mean even if a few filmmakers I know didn't want to do it, cause of the content, I figure I can look to others who are interested in who are more okay with such content. Even if I write a new script, I feel the same filmmakers might not want to make it will probably look for a new set of concerns they have anyway.

Plus I am set to co-direct the other one next year if they get the funding.

[Brian Drysdale]

There are universal stories that work and they can be set anywhere. Who would've thought that Hallock, Minnesota, (which stood in for Brainerd in "Fargo)") was the place to make a thriller.

A great script will always attract people wanting to work on it, It's how you handle the subject that matters, I suspect the fact that people don't want to work on it means that the you haven't written a good script on this subject.

From the synopsis you've given, your script doesn't match the very small budget you've got.

Perhaps the "same filmmakers" don't think you're ready to direct a feature length project or may be they don't want to make darker films. we don't know. From all the forum messages, you don't seem to have the living off your wits quality and doing with the flow required on a very low budget film.

You should bear in mind that the audience for a dark film is usually smaller than that of one dealing with lighter subject matter.

[Paul R Johnson]

Co-Direct worries me greatly.

Directing is a very solo activity. Any attempt to co-direct means conflict ALL OF THE TIME, or one being Director, the other the assistant - NOT, note, Assistant Director. Egos proliferate and it can never be equal. The weaker personality gets the blame for the bad bits and the stronger personality claims all the good bits. it always ends in tears, or a dreadful production. It will be conflict way before you get to shooting. A really crazy idea. I suspect Ryan, that in your circle of friends and work colleagues they're after a gofer. Directors need to make spot decisions. If the decisions in Scene 2 that your co-director make then impact you in Scene 3, you have to change yours - and during that discussion you'll be told how critical it is that the hero does not do X, as this will wreck scene 4 that he will shoot late and it's imperative you don't reveal this. Of course, you need to change but cannot make the on set decision without their input.

Absolute madness in your circumstances. Don't do it. It's a bit like second unit stuff. The director of that has very tight specific briefs, and they cannot go outside it. They're not co-directors, they're second unit directors which is totally different. You cannot share a singular job role, that is singular for a reason.

[Ryan Elder]

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale

There are universal stories that work and they can be set anywhere. Who would've thought that Hallock, Minnesota, (which stood in for Brainerd in "Fargo)") was the place to make a thriller.

A great script will always attract people wanting to work on it, It's how you handle the subject that matters, I suspect the fact that people don't want to work on it means that the you haven't written a good script on this subject.

From the synopsis you've given, your script doesn't match the very small budget you've got.

Perhaps the "same filmmakers" don't think you're ready to direct a feature length project or may be they don't want to make darker films. we don't know. From all the forum messages, you don't seem to have the living off your wits quality and doing with the flow required on a very low budget film.

You should bear in mind that the audience for a dark film is usually smaller than that of one dealing with lighter subject matter.

Well I could do the Santa Claus script that they were much more interested in, I just thought that the budget for that is going to be even higher.

Is it not being able to find a good enough production designer, costume designer, or props, is that the reason, why my current script sounds out of budget? Another thing is, I am actually much more comfortable, making a movie on dark subject matter, than I am making a light one. I watch movies on dark subject matter all the time, and I am more comfortable in that area. I feel a lot less comfortable making a lighthearted movie, feeling like I would screw up how to handle it, more likely, than a dark one. Perhaps I should tell that to the fellow filmmakers, if they expect me to make lighthearted projects, that I feel I will not do well in that area, and am less comfortable with it. Another thing is, I feel that they are much more open to dark subject matter than they realize, cause some of our past projects have been just as dark, and they were excited about doing them. So it's strange how they just got lighthearted all of a sudden.

Or perhaps I can ask them for a compromise, that if they do the dark one with me, I can do the Santa Claus one after, if we get more money for it later on?

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

Co-Direct worries me greatly.

Directing is a very solo activity. Any attempt to co-direct means conflict ALL OF THE TIME, or one being Director, the other the assistant - NOT, note, Assistant Director. Egos proliferate and it can never be equal. The weaker personality gets the blame for the bad bits and the stronger personality claims all the good bits. it always ends in tears, or a dreadful production. It will be conflict way before you get to shooting. A really crazy idea. I suspect Ryan, that in your circle of friends and work colleagues they're after a gofer. Directors need to make spot decisions. If the decisions in Scene 2 that your co-director make then impact you in Scene 3, you have to change yours - and during that discussion you'll be told how critical it is that the hero does not do X, as this will wreck scene 4 that he will shoot late and it's imperative you don't reveal this. Of course, you need to change but cannot make the on set decision without their input.

Absolute madness in your circumstances. Don't do it. It's a bit like second unit stuff. The director of that has very tight specific briefs, and they cannot go outside it. They're not co-directors, they're second unit directors which is totally different. You cannot share a singular job role, that is singular for a reason.

Well I took the job cause it was an opportunity to co-direct a feature. If they cannot get funding for it, then I won't worry about it. Do you think that I should ask him if I can be a second unit director instead?

[Brian Drysdale]

Unless you access much of the above for free. you're basically attempting to shoot a feature film on a short film budget. Have you done a budget for this project? If you're hoping for distribution there are also various insurances and contracts that you need to have in place these days. All of which adds to your costs.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

I think most of what we have to say is wasted on Ryan. I don’t believe his ideas of making a feature film even remotely resemble what you would expect in the real world. Whether we’re talking about budget, responsibilities, equipment, standard practices... It’s like trying to have a serious conversation with a high school student who fancies making a feature film.

[Josh Bass]

maybe but Im holding out hope.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Originally Posted by Josh Bass

maybe but Im holding out hope.

I must admit it’s a tantalizing hope... just when you think it’s in reach...

Like that script. The normal reaction to all the negative feedback would be to can it but his take away was to instead put it up for sale.

Reminds me of the Seinfeld episode when George has an epiphany that his life is in such a mess because he always does the wrong thing so to rectify it he should do the opposite. Maybe the best advice for Ryan whatever his natural inclination are he should do the opposite.

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