Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?

[Ryan Elder]

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

That's what worries me - somebody has taken the mood indicators of one movie and done a Ryan - created a rule, when there isn't a rule. Happy/Sad/Angry/Emotional/scared - all these things now have colour prescribed. So a new 'cinematographer' reads this stuff and runs with it - so all scenes with X in them must be Z colour. Educationalists are always doing this. So and so director did this, and they go on about why it was done, when often it was just how it happened - happy accidents or an experiment that worked. Things that don't work get cut, so nobody knows. I'm very happy with their colour choices in the main. After all, selecting the emulsion to use when picking the film stock was very important and needed a decision early on. Now they can experiment in post it encourages fiddling, which can be good - but I just don't believe in hard rules, just guidelines and suggestions. The bit where they looked at the superman costume with blue, yellow and red. In print they're spaced out evenly, but in video, they're not because video primary colours are different, like light - so I think I might take that reading of the choice made with a pinch of salt. Did the people who designed the superman costume really do it that way, or did they just pick a blue costume then find things that worked with the cape and boots, then add a yellow for contrast in the stylised logo? I bet they never considered a colour wheel!

What rule are you saying I created though, that a location has to be painted instead of lit the color?

[Brian Drysdale]

Use low key lighting if you want atmosphere, unless you've in a period building your art direction is totally wrong and will take the audience out of the story, New York and other US cities have some older buildings, which wouldn't look out place in the1940s when you go inside.

Is the exterior of your police station post 1960s? If so, you will need a modern office look, unless you're going for a Soviet or East German look.

There are lots of movies which have modern police stations and don't have deep brown or blue painted walls and they have extremely tense scenes.

The only brown in this film set in the 1940s is the woodwork

L.A. Confidential - YouTube

The rules being referred to are those in colour mood indicators, painting or lighting walls is entirely another matter.

[Seth Bloombaum]

I see the problem with discussions like this, deriving rules from films to apply rigorously to one’s own film, as completely off the mark.

Only one question needs to be asked and answered: Does this support my story? The answer is frequently: It’s not bad, but it doesn’t do much for story.

How much does it cost in hours or money? Save resources for the things that really make a difference. This is where producing and directing meet.

“How do I do this” isn’t the same as “Should I do this?”

[Ryan Elder]

Well it's just that other movies are set in modern times, yet they do not have a normal modern look. Seven for example, has brown walls in the police station, as well as other buildings such as the attorney's office, but the movie is set in modern times, cause they have modern cars, helicopters, etc.

So I thought that just because a movie is set in modern times, does not mean it needs normal modern colors, since movies like Seven get away with it, and it's the tone and style they are going for, especially if the normal modern colors, are not as photogenic or atmospheric such as white. I thought that cinematic atmosphere, was more important than total realism.

[Brian Drysdale]

In "Seven" it's an old building, not a modern police station, with the rest of the action often taking place in the seedy parts of an American city (originally inspired by NYC, which had a surprising number of unrenovated older buildings in the 1990s and certainly in the 1980s). There's a consistency to everything.

You're creating a world, so if your film is set in seedy city, with public buildings that haven't changed in years, that's fine. However, this seems to be part of your copy and paste approach to film making.

[Ryan Elder]

Well as far as having a copy and paste approach is being inspired by other movies a bad thing though?

[Josh Bass]

inspired = good. Taking something someone else did and basically just copying = no good.

Inspiration would be taking the thing someone else did, using it as a starting point, but then changing it and making it your own.

Oasis was sometimes called the “Beatles of the 90s”. They did not sound exactly like the Beatles. They took their ideas and made them into something new (some people said they stole...I dont hear it).

Greta Van Fleet? Those guys are quite literally copying Led Zeppelin. Guy sings like Plant, music is same style, even kind of have a hippie/60s way of dressing. Total rip off.

[Seth Bloombaum]

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

Well as far as having a copy and paste approach is being inspired by other movies a bad thing though?

Does it support your story? The text and subtext? The portrayal of characters by actors?

Copy and paste is neither good nor bad in itself, and can be a valuable and productive inquiry for learning. But should you actually use it in a film? Does it support your story?

If you spend your resources and time on brown walls, does it actually contribute to story, or would your focus be more valuable elsewhere?

If you really need dingy for a police station, put a desk in a closet - give your characters a challenge to overcome or to resign themselves to. How would you feel if the higher ups put your desk in a janitor's closet?

[Brian Drysdale]

The way you do it isn't. You need to make the films your own, just because something is used in another film doesn't mean it's right for your film. Unless everything is taken back to the first principles of your characters, the story they're living through and their world, plus a personal take on all this, you won't come up with anything more than a knowing pastiche. Anything from another film needs moulded into your vision, not a straight lift, otherwise the audience will be playing guessing games about your references and not emoting and you'll be limited as a film maker.

If you want to make the film you seem to be talking about, you'll need to shift up a few gears.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay I thought I was still making it my own though, cause for example, unlike Seven, I am mixing brown with blue, instead of just brown. So I thought I was still doing other things to make it my own, whilst still getting inspiration from a combination of other movies.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

It’s pointless to try to shake Ryan from his copy/paste approach.

Get out your lights and camera, film yourself in a similar room. Try to color grade it in Davinci to look like Seven. Likewise you also can experiment with gelling your lights. It’s a common technique in interviews to light the background with a different color or temperature for effect or to create separation. Naturally it would be easiest to grade everything the same color in this instance sepia.

[Ryan Elder]

Well I could do the whole make a completely original looking movie from my imagination, I was just afraid the audience will not accept it maybe. I've tried original ideas for shots before, and people say I did them wrong or incorrectly, so not sure, how far I can go with that.

[Brian Drysdale]

You seem to be using these other films as crutches, several people have told me that something won't be truly creative unless you're afraid when making it. You don't know if it's any good or if it's going to work, you're walking along the cliff edge between failure and success,

Perhaps your judgment isn't developed sufficiently yet, working with experienced people who share your vision can be useful. They've already made the mistakes. However, you do need to be willing to go along for the ride.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay. So it's natural to be afraid when making it then, in order for it to be truly creative, you are saying?

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Both from a learning or workflow standpoint when your decision come from you instead of from movies you’ve seen everything is more straight forward. Either your instincts and decisions will work or they won’t. Either way you will know if your cut out for it. If your movie is a success you’ll have earned the confidence you can do what you want. Otherwise you’ll be dependent on other people’s ideas and vision.