My lens has a spot on it, is there anything I can do?

Ryan Elder · August 26th, 2019, 07:07 AM

Oh okay. He also said that Nikkor lenses were better and I should check out those, but he has doubts they would be sharp enough at 300.

What about this one:

https://en.nikon.ca/nikon-products/p....3g-ed-vr.html

Or I could invest in an even older, more high quality lens perhaps, just worried they may be damaged since they are used, and there is no warranty on them or anything.

Chris Hurd · August 26th, 2019, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

the reason you hardly see any microbudget indie features use telephoto lenses, compared to Hollywood, is that lower priced DSLR telephoto lenses, are just not sharp enough to be acceptable.

I think the real reason telephoto lenses aren't used much in micro-budget indie features is that most scripts simply don't call for them.

In feature filmmaking, no matter what the budget is, the shots that require a telephoto lens are nowhere near as common as the shots that require a wide or medium focal length. Think about it.

If the shooting script calls for a long focal length, you rent that lens for a day or two. Done.

Chris Hurd · August 26th, 2019, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

just worried they may be damaged since they are used, and there is no warranty on them or anything.

This is yet another reason why rental is always the best way to go.

Most pro cinema houses require insurance, and therefore they build that cost into the quote so that you have nothing to worry about from the moment you pick it up until you return it.

Some photo houses offer insurance as an add-on, not already built into the cost. You always take it though, especially since it's only a few extra dollars. Well worth it to be completely covered.

You can always get your own gear insured, but it's expensive. Your homeowner's policy most likely will not cover you in the event that you were "out shooting a movie with some folks."

Brian Drysdale · August 26th, 2019, 07:47 AM

The film and TV industry standards are the Canon telephoto lenses. Telephoto lenses tend towards contrast for best results, and the Canon L series primes are designed for full frame 35 mm film resolution, which is pretty similar to what you're using for video. These are the white coloured lenses that Paul mentioned earlier seen at every sporting event.

You buy Nikkor lenses if you want, however, you can't make a general statement about one make being better, because there will be variations across each lens in the range. Also, each brand will have a characteristic "look" that may be desired, so be wary of people saying one manufacturer is better than another without going into details. What matters is the lenses giving you the images you want..

The prime lenses will usually be better image quality than zooms.

The build quality on these lenses is a lot higher than the new low cost lenses you can afford. Test the lens before you buy them, or have a return arrangement if you buy of eBay etc if they goods aren't as described.

You need to test the lenses yourself, or at least look through the in depth reviews that give you a chance to sort things out initially. In the end testing, is the only way to make a final decision, if only by looking at film you know has been shot by a particular lens, Don't take anyone's word at face value.

The standard workhorse zoom lenses are in the 18 to 100mm range, the main prime lenses are also in the same range. You can shoot a feature film mostly using just one focal length, some directors are well known for it. One film I worked on was shot with a 16mm lens on Super 16.

Chris Hurd · August 26th, 2019, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

What about this one: https://en.nikon.ca/nikon-products/p....3g-ed-vr.html

Looks like this lens has very good reviews from still photographers.

Just be sure to do some deeper research regarding its use for video, though:

Quote:

Focus Breathing -- of interest mostly to cinematographers focusing back and forth between two subjects, the image from the Nikon 18-300mm f/3.5-6.3 VR gets smaller as it's focused more closely.

Source: Kens Rockwell (at https://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/18-300mm-vr.htm)

The B&H link for this lens is https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1045736-REG/nikon_2216_af_s_dx_18_300mm_f_3_5_5_6g.html//BI/2855/KBID/3801

If you choose to go this route, you'll need to purchase either a Nikkor-to-EF mount adapter, or a Nikon DX series DSLR.

Brian Drysdale · August 26th, 2019, 08:21 AM

You'd need to check if the focus ring moves continuously, that the Nikkor doesn't seem to have a focus scale doesn't sound positive in this regard. It's probably a varifocal lens, so don't plan to use it for zoom shots.

Ryan Elder · August 26th, 2019, 05:28 PM

Okay thanks. Perhaps I can do without the zoom as long as it is good in other quality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

I think the real reason telephoto lenses aren't used much in micro-budget indie features is that most scripts simply don't call for them.

In feature filmmaking, no matter what the budget is, the shots that require a telephoto lens are nowhere near as common as the shots that require a wide or medium focal length. Think about it.

If the shooting script calls for a long focal length, you rent that lens for a day or two. Done.

The price it costs to rent a lens and have it shipped, I figure I could just by a lens that zooms up to 300mm and I can have it for any shoot date I want, rather than the rental store's availability schedule I figured.

The feature film I am budgeting is a horror thriller script, so I thought that a lens that zooms up to 300mm would be good for quite a few of the shots, because during the running chase scenes, I can pan with the actors for probably 3 seconds or more before they start to go further away, thereby making the chase more exciting. Kind of like the running scenes in a movie like The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly, or Seven Samurai, or something like that.

Or with a lens that long, I could have shots with lots of compression in such as a character pointing a gun towards the camera, but the pistol is small compared to the face, in a face close up. You don't get that with wider lenses.

Or I could do OTS shots which makes two actors look like they are sitting really close to each other when it calls for such a shot.

Shots like those are what I wanted a telephoto zoom lens for.

Seth Bloombaum · August 26th, 2019, 06:31 PM

In my opinion 300mm is too short for a wildlife lens. Your mileage may vary.

An excellent stills lens for video that covers telephoto shots like you describe is the Canon EF 70-200mm f2.8 IS mk 2.

Please excuse my contrarian opinions. I don't care what people say. I say test-test-test and see what works for you. "A filmmaker I talked to said..." carries no weight with me. Did your 300mm with the spot on it actually get the shot you wanted?

Ryan, with all respect to the many pros on this forum who have contributed their decades of experience in this and other threads, you are now swimming in a sea of opinions and others' experiences. What I call "internet truths". They're not like the truths you can discover through shooting. They're not like the learning you get through experience.

Fly-by-wire lenses all bad? No, in my experience. Will ACs and DPs whine about your lenses? Yes, whether they're fly-by-wire or not.

If you have a prime the DP will want a zoom. If you have a zoom the DP will want a prime. That's part of working with people.

Would you do better with Nikon still lenses? Older nikons can be great, but so are a lot of the classic lenses. Contax. Pentax. Rokkor. Get some, polish them up, get them cleaned-lubricated-adjusted and declick the apertures while you're at it. Then the next DP you work with will say "Nikon, huh? Well, those aren't bad, but, I just worked on a project with these amazing vintage Contax lenses, you should get those! Want me to call and see if we can get them?"

You've dismissed rentals as difficult to schedule and expensive to ship. There are many working pros who differ, but if you want to own more lenses you should buy them!

What do you like? What shots speak to you? Ask that question of the contributors here and you'll get hundreds of answers, including: Vintage Nikon primes, primes not zooms, zooms not primes, must be PL mount, can't work without a mattebox, never use one, it goes on and on. And we haven't even gotten to cameras and lighting yet!

Ryan Elder · August 26th, 2019, 07:41 PM

Yeah for wildlife it's too short, but this wildlife project is just a one time thing I think I still want a lens for future projects, and thought at least 300mm would be good.

I wanted one for a feature film project as well, and it's a horror thriller, where I wanted to do some chase scenes on foot, and use it for that. What focal length is this lens in this clip:

It looks to me to be at least a 300mm and I want shots like that for the chase scenes, if my current lens is not up to snuff for that.

Brian Drysdale · August 27th, 2019, 12:49 AM

Ryan, you are going over old ground again that shot was covered in another thread, this was probably shot at 250mm using a 25mm to 250mm zoom lens, a pretty standard piece of kit on a feature film of the period.

If you're concerned about warranty, specialist dealers often sell older lenses with a short warranty e,g. 3 months. I checked such one site and there are quite a few very good and excellent 300mm lenses in your price range. There are also 400mm, plus 600mm but these are more expensive. With some dealers you can go and test the lens before purchasing it.

Buying a cheap lens instead of renting a high quality. professional grade lens is a false economy, which can effect the quality of your film.

With these long focal length lenses you also need a good head and tripod. However, that's something worth having regardless of this.

Ryan Elder · August 27th, 2019, 07:02 AM

Sorry, yes you're right, we did.

As for the possibility of zooming during the shot, I was advised before that if the lens is varifocal, to pull focus during the zoom. What if I got a lens that also has an aperture ring. Then I could have someone pull focus, but also have another person turn the aperture ring while zooming, so the aperture remains constant. Would that work?

Brian Drysdale · August 27th, 2019, 07:23 AM

No, the lens will probably go out of focus because it's a varifocal lens.

Stopping the lens down will avoid avoid aperture ramping, it usually occurs when the lens is wide open and usually disappears when stopped down one or two stops.

If you're tallying about the 18 to 300 mm Nikkor, it's a still lens, personally I wouldn't even consider it as a video lens unless I was really stuck for a lens and there wasn't any other options availble on the day. I wouldn't zoom with it, but regard it as a variable prime lens, so no zooms in shot.

Chris Hurd · August 27th, 2019, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

Then I could have someone pull focus, but also have another person turn the aperture ring while zooming, so the aperture remains constant. Would that work?

Good heavens. No. That would *not* work. Think about it for a minute. Can you see how that isn't possible?

Instead, as Brian mentions above, the way you handle a variable aperture lens is to simply adjust it for constant aperture.

Do this by setting the camera's aperture to match the maximum aperture value at the telephoto end. As a result, your variable aperture zoom is now constant aperture.

For example, let's say your zoom lens is f/3.5-5.6 -- set your camera aperture to f/5.6 and now the lens will not ramp aperture during the zoom.

Ryan Elder · August 27th, 2019, 05:18 PM

Okay thanks, but I already tried that, where the aperture is on the same setting from the beginning of the zoom till the end of the zoom, but you can still see it changing. Here is a test I did at f8, and it was on f8 the entire time:

As you can see the aperture changes during the zoom, even if it's on the same setting. Something about the zooming is still changing the exposure, isn't?

Paul R Johnson · August 28th, 2019, 12:31 AM

Sure it's the lens and not your camera in some auto exposure mode that is messing it up? If it is the lens, then you're stuck. The test on this would be a simple one. set the focal length and move in closer, not zooming and see if the highlights changing in the background trigger the same response.

August 26th, 2019, 07:07 AM	#106
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: My lens has a spot on it, is there anything I can do? Oh okay. He also said that Nikkor lenses were better and I should check out those, but he has doubts they would be sharp enough at 300. What about this one: https://en.nikon.ca/nikon-products/p....3g-ed-vr.html Or I could invest in an even older, more high quality lens perhaps, just worried they may be damaged since they are used, and there is no warranty on them or anything.

August 26th, 2019, 07:47 AM	#109
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: My lens has a spot on it, is there anything I can do? The film and TV industry standards are the Canon telephoto lenses. Telephoto lenses tend towards contrast for best results, and the Canon L series primes are designed for full frame 35 mm film resolution, which is pretty similar to what you're using for video. These are the white coloured lenses that Paul mentioned earlier seen at every sporting event. You buy Nikkor lenses if you want, however, you can't make a general statement about one make being better, because there will be variations across each lens in the range. Also, each brand will have a characteristic "look" that may be desired, so be wary of people saying one manufacturer is better than another without going into details. What matters is the lenses giving you the images you want.. The prime lenses will usually be better image quality than zooms. The build quality on these lenses is a lot higher than the new low cost lenses you can afford. Test the lens before you buy them, or have a return arrangement if you buy of eBay etc if they goods aren't as described. You need to test the lenses yourself, or at least look through the in depth reviews that give you a chance to sort things out initially. In the end testing, is the only way to make a final decision, if only by looking at film you know has been shot by a particular lens, Don't take anyone's word at face value. The standard workhorse zoom lenses are in the 18 to 100mm range, the main prime lenses are also in the same range. You can shoot a feature film mostly using just one focal length, some directors are well known for it. One film I worked on was shot with a 16mm lens on Super 16.

August 26th, 2019, 08:21 AM	#111
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: My lens has a spot on it, is there anything I can do? You'd need to check if the focus ring moves continuously, that the Nikkor doesn't seem to have a focus scale doesn't sound positive in this regard. It's probably a varifocal lens, so don't plan to use it for zoom shots.

August 26th, 2019, 06:31 PM	#113
Seth Bloombaum Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,420	Re: My lens has a spot on it, is there anything I can do? In my opinion 300mm is too short for a wildlife lens. Your mileage may vary. An excellent stills lens for video that covers telephoto shots like you describe is the Canon EF 70-200mm f2.8 IS mk 2. Please excuse my contrarian opinions. I don't care what people say. I say test-test-test and see what works for you. "A filmmaker I talked to said..." carries no weight with me. Did your 300mm with the spot on it actually get the shot you wanted? Ryan, with all respect to the many pros on this forum who have contributed their decades of experience in this and other threads, you are now swimming in a sea of opinions and others' experiences. What I call "internet truths". They're not like the truths you can discover through shooting. They're not like the learning you get through experience. Fly-by-wire lenses all bad? No, in my experience. Will ACs and DPs whine about your lenses? Yes, whether they're fly-by-wire or not. If you have a prime the DP will want a zoom. If you have a zoom the DP will want a prime. That's part of working with people. Would you do better with Nikon still lenses? Older nikons can be great, but so are a lot of the classic lenses. Contax. Pentax. Rokkor. Get some, polish them up, get them cleaned-lubricated-adjusted and declick the apertures while you're at it. Then the next DP you work with will say "Nikon, huh? Well, those aren't bad, but, I just worked on a project with these amazing vintage Contax lenses, you should get those! Want me to call and see if we can get them?" You've dismissed rentals as difficult to schedule and expensive to ship. There are many working pros who differ, but if you want to own more lenses you should buy them! What do you like? What shots speak to you? Ask that question of the contributors here and you'll get hundreds of answers, including: Vintage Nikon primes, primes not zooms, zooms not primes, must be PL mount, can't work without a mattebox, never use one, it goes on and on. And we haven't even gotten to cameras and lighting yet! __________________ 30 years of pro media production. Vegas user since 1.0. Webcaster since 1997. Freelancer since 2000. College instructor since 2001.

August 26th, 2019, 07:41 PM	#114
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: My lens has a spot on it, is there anything I can do? Yeah for wildlife it's too short, but this wildlife project is just a one time thing I think I still want a lens for future projects, and thought at least 300mm would be good. I wanted one for a feature film project as well, and it's a horror thriller, where I wanted to do some chase scenes on foot, and use it for that. What focal length is this lens in this clip: telephoto lens shot example - YouTube It looks to me to be at least a 300mm and I want shots like that for the chase scenes, if my current lens is not up to snuff for that. Last edited by Ryan Elder; August 26th, 2019 at 08:52 PM.

August 27th, 2019, 12:49 AM	#115
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: My lens has a spot on it, is there anything I can do? Ryan, you are going over old ground again that shot was covered in another thread, this was probably shot at 250mm using a 25mm to 250mm zoom lens, a pretty standard piece of kit on a feature film of the period. If you're concerned about warranty, specialist dealers often sell older lenses with a short warranty e,g. 3 months. I checked such one site and there are quite a few very good and excellent 300mm lenses in your price range. There are also 400mm, plus 600mm but these are more expensive. With some dealers you can go and test the lens before purchasing it. Buying a cheap lens instead of renting a high quality. professional grade lens is a false economy, which can effect the quality of your film. With these long focal length lenses you also need a good head and tripod. However, that's something worth having regardless of this. Last edited by Brian Drysdale; August 27th, 2019 at 01:23 AM.

August 27th, 2019, 07:02 AM	#116
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: My lens has a spot on it, is there anything I can do? Sorry, yes you're right, we did. As for the possibility of zooming during the shot, I was advised before that if the lens is varifocal, to pull focus during the zoom. What if I got a lens that also has an aperture ring. Then I could have someone pull focus, but also have another person turn the aperture ring while zooming, so the aperture remains constant. Would that work?

August 27th, 2019, 07:23 AM	#117
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: My lens has a spot on it, is there anything I can do? No, the lens will probably go out of focus because it's a varifocal lens. Stopping the lens down will avoid avoid aperture ramping, it usually occurs when the lens is wide open and usually disappears when stopped down one or two stops. If you're tallying about the 18 to 300 mm Nikkor, it's a still lens, personally I wouldn't even consider it as a video lens unless I was really stuck for a lens and there wasn't any other options availble on the day. I wouldn't zoom with it, but regard it as a variable prime lens, so no zooms in shot.

August 27th, 2019, 05:18 PM	#119
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: My lens has a spot on it, is there anything I can do? Okay thanks, but I already tried that, where the aperture is on the same setting from the beginning of the zoom till the end of the zoom, but you can still see it changing. Here is a test I did at f8, and it was on f8 the entire time: aperture zoom test - YouTube As you can see the aperture changes during the zoom, even if it's on the same setting. Something about the zooming is still changing the exposure, isn't?

August 28th, 2019, 12:31 AM	#120
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	Re: My lens has a spot on it, is there anything I can do? Sure it's the lens and not your camera in some auto exposure mode that is messing it up? If it is the lens, then you're stuck. The test on this would be a simple one. set the focal length and move in closer, not zooming and see if the highlights changing in the background trigger the same response.