How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?

[Paul R Johnson]

Ryan - remember the art discussion? You are now reconsidering aspect ratio to save the quantity of extras????

Remember - Vision. What do you need it to look like. In all my years I have never even considered making artistic decisions on variables like this? Sure - budget is important, and I've swapped locations that will be cheaper, I've swapped cameras and even crew for budget reasons, but people in the shot are simply dressing. I really don't understand you. You've made amazingly heavy water out of the aspect ratio, and now don't care, and are picking it because you have to find extra people? Could you not reblock them, or do other artistic things to make your chosen size fit?

We've talked this to death then you throw it all away on a whim.

I'm really sorry Ryan, but this just makes me cross that we wasted so much time and energy trying to help, and you throw this in at the last minute and make all the discussion pointless.

The title of the thread is 'How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?' - the answer appears to be, he bases it on the budget he has to fill the image with people? We could have done that 1st post, if you said I want to go wide, but can't afford to have that many extras.

You let this topic get HOW big, before throwing this in? You're just messing us about.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

You’re describing the natural course of all his threads. For my sanity, I find it best to only discuss the subject for its own sake and not concern myself with giving him advice or solving his problems. You’ll inevitably end up angry and frustrated for wasting your time.

He should have a disclaimer at the beginning of all his threads. “Warning all advice and answers for the questions I’m about to ask will be discarded due to budgetary restrictions.”

[Ryan Elder]

Oh sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I was throwing away in advice! I considered all the advice, but I was told that on here before, that in the end, I need to learn to make my own decisions for my own reasons.

So if that's true, than I felt needing more actors and set design in the frame might take up more budget, and thought that was a deciding factor in which one to choose. Was I wrong to have my own reasons to make that decision?

[Brian Drysdale]

It's your decision, in the past the economics would've driven the decision, so you probably wouldn't have asked the question.

[Ryan Elder]

Well I guess I just had to take all the advice and weigh it all and think about it. Both aspect ratios are in good in different ways, which makes it difficult to make a decision. So I guess I just thought I should make it out of budget then, if both are good in different ways. But I could go back and rethink it and make a decision, that is all about the art, and not budget based, then if that's better.

[Patrick Tracy]

For me it's a simple matter of letting the technology dictate what I use. I have cheap cameras that all put out 16:9, and the vast majority of displays anything I produce will be seen on are compatible with 16:9, so I work within that format.

The limitations of technology have always constrained and influenced artistic decisions, often in ways that inspired the people producing the art. Since I'm an "audio first" thinker it's the history of recording that serves as my model. For example, Sgt. Pepper was recorded on a pair of Studer 4-track decks. Although 8-track machines were available, the record company wouldn't pay for them, so George Martin had to make do with what he had, which he did brilliantly with a bit of planning. When he filled up all the tracks on one machine he had to mix down to one or two tracks of the other. Was that masterpiece created in spite of or because of the limitations? Hard to say.

So perhaps use your budget limitation as inspiration. Maybe you'll make the next El Mariachi.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay. It would be awesome of course to make the next El Mariachi.

Well I never thought of cameras not having a 2.39:1 ratio being a problem as you can just load some free firmware onto a lot of cameras that will give you that aspect ratio.

The budget dilemma for me, it means I need more extras in the shots, as well as more set design, since more of a room is shown 2.39.

Do you think that maybe I should put art before budget first though? For example, I showed the script I want to make to a DP, who may be interested, and he said he really would like to use a drone for some shots, but I don't know if I want to spend the money and permits and insurance for a drone, but he thinks it will really add to the art of the movie if we do. That is just another current example of art vs. budget.

[Paul R Johnson]

I've lost the plot altogether - Ryan. What exactly are you? you now have a DP who wants to do drone shots, you were a boom op, then a cameraman, then a producer, now I have no idea/

You seem to want to be everything, then nothing. If you have a DP then that person would be thinking much the same as you - so can we sort out what you have on your business card? Ryan Wray - XXXXXXXX

What is the XXXXXX? (This week) - it's confusing the heck out of me, and as soon as I think I've got you sorted, as in you are the director, you morph into something else.

Please stop asking what we think of every variable - we don't know, because you never give a full explanation to anything - ever!

IS it your money funding all these people? If it is, why to you allow other people to tell you what to do?

how are you choosing your team, or is there already a team and you are the person expected to fix everything.

We're willing to help, but we now need to understand you, what you do, where the funds come from, what happens to the finished product and where do you go from here.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh sorry, I'll try to explain more.

I want to direct and produce a feature film to send into festivals and hopefully if distribution happens, that's great.

I've done boom op work for other people on their productions. This DP is a connection I made through doing such work, and he asked if I had any projects I want to do, and I told him about this one and he was interested.

I don't have to be own my DP of course, but still have to make a lot of decisions as director, such as aspect ratio or types of shots of course. I haven't chosen a team yet because before going to a team, I want to get all the storyboarding done first, so I have it ready to present to them. It would be my money, plus the possible money from any investors I can attract later, but want to get the storyboards done first as well as other things, before presenting it to them, or to a team.

Does this help explain more?

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

We've talked this to death then you throw it all away on a whim. I'm really sorry Ryan, but this just makes me cross that we wasted so much time and energy trying to help, and you throw this in at the last minute and make all the discussion pointless.

Originally Posted by Pete Cofrancesco

You’re describing the natural course of all his threads. For my sanity, I find it best to only discuss the subject for its own sake and not concern myself with giving him advice or solving his problems. You’ll inevitably end up angry and frustrated for wasting your time.

I think it's important to point out here that most any discussion thread on DVi -- especially one like this, which goes on for pages and pages -- will usually, if properly conducted, transcend well beyond the original poster's purpose or intentions. And that's a good thing.

To state it another way, a discussion thread of this size typically goes above and beyond whatever the Original Poster (OP) was getting at. The result is that it positively affects other readers who come upon it later. It doesn't matter if the OP has taken our advice or not. Perhaps somebody else will. Other people can learn a lot from reading through it. The topic is broad enough and general enough and is discussed well enough that there's plenty of potential for it to be useful for other people. I've said before that I want this site to appeal to all of the lurkers -- all of those folks who read but choose not to post. They will definitely benefit from all of this. Meanwhile, the OP can take it or leave it. His questions were answered in good faith and that's all that matters.

So yes, please, by all means discuss the subject for its own sake. Other eyes will gain from it besides (or instead of) the OP.

Thanks all,

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Are you Ryan Wray or Ryan Elder?

Originally Posted by Ryan Wray

I'm Ryan Wray

Actually I think you're both Ryan Wray and Ryan Elder, and I'm not quite sure how to handle that from an administrative perspective, so I've given you the custom title "also known as Ryan Elder." Because as far as I can tell, you're going by both names. Or perhaps you were Ryan Elder and recently you became Ryan Wray, which is all well and good and fine of course, but I just wanted to avoid any confusion about who you are.

For example, on your YouTube page your name is Ryan Elder. And yet, in your most recently uploaded YouTube video, you credit yourself as Ryan Wray. And that's just one example. It's really not that big of a deal, but the members of this particular forum generally prefer to know who they're talking to. And the thing is, you're currently posting on another forum right now as Ryan Elder. In fact you've been posting on a wide variety of forum sites as far back as 2012, which is also okay, but it's important to understand that DVi isn't like other forum sites.

Ultimately it's really no big deal as it's clear to me that you're not trying to impersonate someone else or anything -- I mean, see https://www.imdb.com/name/nm9866858/ -- that's you, right? However, for the sake of my own sanity, I've got you down as Ryan Elder below your username.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh I just with Ryan Wray cause I thought it sounded better for a credited name, for projects I've worked on that's all.

I could have posted my real name on here, if I should have, sorry.

If going off on tangents about movie making and going into other areas than what I originally posted is bad, I didn't mean to have bad form, I just get all anxious about the whole process, in a good positive way I think, and just want to have all my bases covered.

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

I could have posted my real name on here, if I should have, sorry.

That is in fact the policy here.

Fixed. Thanks!

[Ryan Elder]

Well I reread over the advice, and quite a few responses say to shoot in 16:9 or 1.85:1 because the odds of getting a theatrical release are low, but other indie films shoot in 2.39, even though they don't know what release they will get, don't they? Did the filmmakers of an indie film like Moonlight for example, shot in 2.39, know they were going to get a theatrical release, before making the movie?

[Patrick Tracy]

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

Do you think that maybe I should put art before budget first though?

I think you should make your own decision based on your own artistic sense and within your own practical constraints.